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Where Has All the Wealth Gone?
Robert Court
Posted: 26 November 2011 09:09:15(UTC)
#41

Joined: 22/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 606

Philmo

Good points.

I agree 100% that one should save before spending and that mortgaging your future can only bring future suffering by spending what you haven't already earned.

Sane consumption of wealth once it has been created is so very different from the insanity of undisciplined spending based 100% on debt.

I often wonder at the 'miracle' of Hong Kong with zero natural resources and even have to import their water; their one resource was the determination of the people to create wealth at whatever individual personal sacrifice for a future goal.

If only our own human resources in the UK were so determined and focused on creating a better future rather than blowing money now in the present that they haven't earned and doesn't belong to them [i.e. just living off credit].

The whole of our society has participated in this illusion - from the government all the way down to people getting payroll loans.
Clive B
Posted: 26 November 2011 09:51:43(UTC)
#42

Joined: 25/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 508

With regard to the original question, I would say that in a number of cases - principally houses and the stock market - the wealth never really existed.

Take housing. Imagine starting with one million houses, each with average value £100K. Valuation of total housing stock £100 billion. A few (doesn't take many) houses change hands at - say - £110K. Now the valuation of total housing stock is set at £110K x 1million, i.e. £110 billion. Hence, we see an apparent increas in the country's wealth of £10billiion, despite the fact only a fraction of the house changed hands at the higher price and there is NO more money in the country than at the start point.

With houses, when valuations increase, people feel wealthier, borrow against this apparent increase in their wealth, spend more, business do better, share prices go up....everything feels great.

Same occurs with the stock market. Just a few of a company's shares need to trade at a higher price and the company (due to having many million shares) is valued massively higher.

I don't have an answer to all this, but it suggests (to me at least) our method of valuing "wealth" is wrong
Philmo
Posted: 26 November 2011 09:56:29(UTC)
#43

Joined: 12/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 22

Hi Robert
Glad I'm not on my own!
Whilst I agree we've all played our part in accepting the seduction of easy life, I believe the politicians should take most of the rap for :
a] mis-leading the way
b] protecting their own selfish interest, ie their votes and the greediest of pension schemes!
Not many people know that a public employee in a relatively lowly post can put in 20 yers service, become an MP and after a relatively short term in office retire on a pension based on CURRENT salary and ALL the years of public service! Clearly a case for salary averaging! In addition, that facility is not available to MP's from the private sector. Further, a retired Army major can enter the house on full pension and collect full MP salary, not to mention, further pension!!!
Where's the justification?
There are many rules and gravy train mechanisms which are being taken advantage of, to the disbenefit of the public purse and average Joe Public and which need review!
Graham D-C
Posted: 26 November 2011 12:49:19(UTC)
#44

Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 28

The answer to the question of "where has the money gone ", is perfectly simple. The missing hundreds of billions of pounds were spent by Tony Blair aided and abetted by his reckless and feckless cabinet, all of whom came to power after being in the political wilderness (where they now reside - hopefully for eternity) for 18 years. So enormous was Blair's ego that he willing fell under the spell of a foreign leader in exchange for the adulation he received from the politicians on America's Capitol Hill. The consequences of which included joining the United States in a war that history had already told us could never be won and another war which under UN Resolution 1441 was illegal and predicated on a fabric of lies told to parliament. These two wars have cost this country not only the relentless loss of of hundreds of the finest men and women soldiers in the world but also a conservative £20bn pounds to date.

A further £15-20 bilion pounds have been spent by Gordon Brown on two non nuclear powered aircaraft carriers (flying American VTOL aircraft), which when built will see one immediately mothballed and the other hopefully fully operational by 2025.

Further billions were spent on benefits for half a million illegal/legal immigrants Labour deliberately swamped the country with .

More billions of pounds were squandered by Blair and Brown on paying benefits to people who existed in a twilight world where successive generations of families never worked and amongst whom many unmarried men and women lived off the benefits gained from breeding like rats .

Meanwhile PM (ex Chancellor of the Exchequer) Gordon Brown was quite happy to ignore the financial if not criminal actvities perpetrated by city bankers as long as they poured in the taxes to fund Labour's lunatic policies, right up until the balloon finally burst in 2008. All which has brought this recently great country to its knees.
Robert Court
Posted: 26 November 2011 20:19:59(UTC)
#45

Joined: 22/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 606

I met up with a retired German couple today I'd first met a year ago; they've rented a very nice bungalow in the local 4 star hotel until the 4th January next year.

To be able to afford such a long luxury break I immediately thought the husband must have been a top German industrialist or at least owned his own successful business in the private sector.

No, he's a retired German state school teacher.

I think the wealth has been created in other countries and not lately in the UK.

It makes me feel very sad that we are so impoverished compared with some of our wealthy neighbours.
dd
Posted: 27 November 2011 00:20:33(UTC)
#46

Joined: 15/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 281

Me too, though the majority of the electorate chose Blair/Brown's idiotic lack of control over spending and use of all our "rainy day" money. It is no wonder we are so impoverished. Every day there was a new announcement about how much was being spent on this or that, as if the spending was a better measurement of their success than what was achieved.
It would be interesting to see the numbers relating to foreign aid given by those countries (worldwide) where greater wealth has been created in recent years. (I am not making any assumptions, here.) If we can help eliminate real poverty then we should but it seems that as a nation we are borrowing to give at a time when we are struggling to avoid sinking ourselves.
I heard that the French were pleased with their increased exports of wine, to China.
Lets Face It
Posted: 27 November 2011 11:15:20(UTC)
#47

Joined: 15/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Money needs to flow
To make economies grow
If you bury it all in the sand
Then theres nothing left in your hand
To buy, to eat, or even wash your feet

I'd rather have a mortgage that I'll never be able to pay
Than no job, no roof and being hungry all day.
You may think it wreckless and that one day we'll all pay
But you can't pay with nothing......thats what I say!

Cap those big fat wages
Spread the funds around
Then all of our lives will be worth living
In an economy thats sound.
dd
Posted: 27 November 2011 12:39:24(UTC)
#48

Joined: 15/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 281

That reminds me, with the passing of Jimmy Saville, as well as Bob Hope, Johnny Cash and Steve Jobs, they say:
"No Jobs, no Cash, no Hope and no longer anyone to fix it for me." (Apologies to those who have already heard it. This is not an original.)
Philmo
Posted: 27 November 2011 12:48:04(UTC)
#49

Joined: 12/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 22

Well there may be two among us who might scratch a living on the stage!
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