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Should we have a 'Robin Hood' tax?
nickle
Posted: 03 November 2011 08:57:46(UTC)
#31

Joined: 15/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 62

A financial transaction tax appears to be a particularly cowardly way of dealing with an ill-defined problem.

=======

Yep, They want to hide the true cost to the individual.

The problem is well defined.

1. The government has run up 7,000 bn of debts. Your share, 225,000 pounds (9,000 a year in interest)

2. They are still spending hand over fist, far more than they raise in taxes.

3. Raising tax rates will result in lower tax revenues. We are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve.
Minnie Roberts
Posted: 03 November 2011 09:16:06(UTC)
#32

Joined: 04/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1

How about a transaction tax on all the 'grey' transactions that take place on jobs such as cleaning, dog walking, building, etc. I am sure that, from the billions involved, a team of snoopers - revenue community support - could be employed netting enough to make a significant reduction in the national debt, if not cancelling it. We could all inform on each other - what fun!
Anonymous Post
Posted: 03 November 2011 09:21:24(UTC)
#33
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

The one pound when you withdraw money from an ATM is extremely misleading and belies a superficial knowledge of the subject.

For those who are commenting with little idea of what has been proposed, a tax of 0.05% has been proposed on stocks, bonds, foreign currency and derivatives. To make sure you read that right, it represents one twentieth of one percent.

So if you were to be charged £1 at the ATM, you would have to be withdrawing £2000. Or when you withdraw £20, it costs you 1p.


I take the point that the ATM example was used to argue the public will shoulder all the burden but I'm not convinced by this argument either. High frequency trading (every few seconds) and huge increases in derivatives has pushed the volume of financial transactions to more than 70 times the size of the world economy, not salvageable when we run into problems down the line. A 0.05% tax would make many of these socially useless transactions unprofitable (a lot of currency speculation on tiny profit margins would go), hitting hedge funds much more than insurance and pension funds.

The public will end up paying more but not as damaging as is being made out and this would far outweigh the benefits of reduced volatility and speculation. Liquidity would of course drop but do we really need trading at 70 times the global economy to meet the liquidity requirements of the real economy?

Before 0.5% stamp duty on stocks was introduced, the same arguments were used. Miraculously, financial Armageddon didn't occur and we are still all here to tell the tale.
Robert Court
Posted: 03 November 2011 09:33:20(UTC)
#34

Joined: 22/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 606

nickle

I agree, but:

What's up with my Mathematics?

£7,000 bn divided by 60 million = £116,666 per head of the population not £225,000.

The experts say we are at risk of deflation - rubbish!

An inflation rate of the interest paid + 10% will reduce the debt to three pounds ten shillings and three pence in no time at all (but probably long after we're both dead).

There's no real problem.

Our youth shall revolt (most of them are a pretty revolting bunch anyway).

95% will starve to death after they run out of canned food to eat; the remaining 5% shall evolve into a new race called 'Homo non-snivelling omnivorous' and thrive until they reinvent canned food but forget to reinvent the can-opener.

'Nothing new under the sun' as they say.

My guess is that the Egyptian, Greek and Roman empires all fell from power for the same reason: credit default swaps etc dreamed up by very clever people inventing ways to make money out of thin air.
william sloan
Posted: 03 November 2011 09:46:02(UTC)
#35

Joined: 22/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

Robbin' Hood tax on share dealing ?
We already have one , it's called Stamp Duty .
nickle
Posted: 03 November 2011 09:57:15(UTC)
#36

Joined: 15/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 62

7,000 bn divided by 60 million = £116,666 per head of the population not £225,000

============

Just so you can re do the maths, there are 30 million tax payers in the UK

============

So if you were to be charged £1 at the ATM, you would have to be withdrawing £2000. Or when you withdraw £20, it costs you 1p.

============

Lets make it a pound. That raises more money and that means more people can have their money redistributed.

It also makes it absolutely clear that the money is being taken.

If you tax the other things, then it isn't clear that the money is being taken, and in lots of cases its too late when people find out.

Look for example at Brown's tax raid on pension funds. That's taken well over 120 bn in present values from people's pensions. In addition because it has dropped returns on equities, the result is that share prices have dropped. Another 20% roughly. It's also part of the drive for debt and been a direct cause of companies gearing up and becoming more risky. All hidden away.

However, you seem to be claiming its a small effect, in which case it won't raise much money. However, people keep claiming it will raise a lot of money. Big inconsistency - big lie.
Yogi The Arch Bear
Posted: 03 November 2011 10:12:45(UTC)
#37

Joined: 08/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1

A good tax is a simple tax that is widely understood and hard to avoid or evade either locally or internationally. Variable tax rates on differing activities create opportunities for the 'gaps' between such taxes to be exploited. Therefore, there is one simple solution and that is one simple tax, levived at a mathematically simple rate of 10%, on everything.
Anonymous Post
Posted: 03 November 2011 10:19:15(UTC)
#38
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

It is a very small effect.

0.05% on eligible transactions in the UK of 40 trillion is expected to yield £20 billion a year. In reality it is likely to be less as the tax itself would reduce the volume of transactions, as mentioned previously. I would urge people to scratch below the surface on this subject.
nickle
Posted: 03 November 2011 10:24:45(UTC)
#39

Joined: 15/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 62

So 20 bn comes out of people's pockets.

You've got Labour complaining that cuts in spending of a few million is a disaster because its a reduction in spending.

Here you're proposing taking 20 bn out of people's spending.
nickle
Posted: 03 November 2011 10:27:51(UTC)
#40

Joined: 15/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 62

20 bn is about 4p on income tax.

Why don't we add 4p to income tax and get the money that way?

Ah yes, People would notice the money being taken.
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