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deceased aunts flat
Mogish
Posted: 14 January 2022 13:02:25(UTC)
#1

Joined: 15/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 85

I have the chance to buy my dear aunts flat who recently passed away.
Unfortunately relatives want to put it on the market as "this will get us the best price"

I dont disagree with this , however the flat is in need of an upgrade.
She smoked 40 a day and never left the house for 21 years!

My question is:

Flat in Edinburgh shows 6% a year increase in value...will this continue?
New bathroom and kitchen needed, , decorate all rooms(4)
refloor entire flat, stamp duty(£700) legals £2k , estimate flip time after refurb 5 weeks.

I estimate £15k is needed to get it up to good standard

Approx value is £210k
What rough purchase price seems fair , are my calculations reasonable correct
and what sort of offer should I make?

TIA
laang lee
Posted: 20 January 2022 06:42:17(UTC)
#2

Joined: 29/11/2017(UTC)
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Likewise, an elderly relative has died, and I will inherit a share. Gradual deterioration, as kitchen, bathroom, carpets and windows are satisfactory, but there comes a time when they need replacing, and a new owner would/will say not satisfactory for them. This means work and cost for the new owner, so the price has to reflect that, and they will want a bargain to balance the work needed.

So we inheritors had a price in mind, and asked 3 agents for valuations, which all were lower than we wanted. But, all agreed that they had underestimated, and increased the price in this hot market. Some buyers relish the opportunity to do the refurbishment to their taste, others do not want the bother.. The cost could be anything from £15 to £50 thousand. One flat I saw recently had been repainted all white, fine, and had new but cheap carpets, and I neither wanted to take them out, being new, nor keep them as they were cheap.

We will wait and see what the buyers are prepared to offer. I suggest you wait and see what offers you get from strangers, and agree with your relatives to match. This will involve charges from the agent, but will stop your relatives from thinking you have taken advantage of them and cheated them. Often when something has been on the market for a while the price can come down by thousands, A stranger may offer 20% or more under the asking price, which you may not be able to do to your relatives. Sometimes you can get more than you asked for.

I presume you want a bargain, which means your relatives would think they have "given" you thousands of pounds if you put in a low offer that they could have accepted from a stranger.
This sale could take months. You could consider putting it on the market "as is", rather than you doing the redecorating at your expense, and then increasing the selling price which you all benefit from.
2 users thanked laang lee for this post.
Tim D on 20/01/2022(UTC), bingo on 20/01/2022(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 20 January 2022 15:26:31(UTC)
#3

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
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A few random thoughts from an Edinburgh resident:

- Which area of Edinburgh is it? Properties in the "nice bits of town" always seem much in demand, especially in the tourist town for AirBnB type properties or for student HMOs. And I don't see much sign of that changing. Not so sure about the more outlying regions though. (And be aware there has been much talk of a crackdown on short-term letting e.g https://www.edinburghliv...ncil-crackdown-21303711 , although the reality seems to be that the council has less appetite for controls than long suffering residents do).

- "Approx value is £210k". Was that a "probate valuation" for the estate executors? I believe those are generally lower than the normal sort of valuation an estate agent would give.

- If not already aware: property sales in Scotland generally operate on a "offers over" sealed bids system. IMHO, this greatly favours the seller - at least when the market is buoyant - as desperate buyers put in highball offers to have a chance of winning anything. In more depressed times, more properties seem to be offered at a "fixed price" (which will then be reduced until someone bites). Not noticed any of those in local property sales recently though. If *I* was your relative, I'd be wanting *you* to have to put in just such a "sealed bid" yourself and compete with other potential buyers, to maximise *my* profit. Note also that due to "anti-gazumping rules" Scottish solicitors probably wouldn't be happy collaborating with any process that put the property out to sealed bids offers, but then gave you an option to match the highest bid. However it's also true that the seller is under no obligation to accept the highest sealed bid offer or indeed any of them, so there may be some wriggle room.

- Local online chat group seems to have many threads along the lines of "I need a plumber/electrician/builder/decorator" / "We use X" / "I tried them and they said they're so booked up they're not taking on new jobs". And that's been the trend since all the Polish people disappeared. A property we let out just needed a refresh of paintwork between tenants and all the quotes were about double what we expected. Don't know if you've factored that into your cost calculations.

- I get the impression buyers are either perfectly prepared to take on fixer-uppers (certainly a couple of "old lady's flats" sold near us recently - quickly and easily it seemed to me from the short times the for-sale posts were up - and from what we could see of photos on the ESPC site little or no effort to modernize the interiors) OR they want to buy somewhere completely finished they can immediately rent out (or AirBnB) or move into themselves and start using. IMHO there's little point in spending thousands to only do a halfway job; the former group's budget is based on gutting and refreshing the place completely anyway, and the latter group isn't interested in half finished cosmetic efforts that'll need further attention. Honestly no idea how much of a spread there is between what the two groups are prepared to pay though.
1 user thanked Tim D for this post.
Fife Clive on 20/01/2022(UTC)
Mogish
Posted: 20 January 2022 16:05:54(UTC)
#4

Joined: 15/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 85

The flat is in Leith edinburgh in a decent privately managed area.
Today I put it on the market as relatives claimed as executors there was a conflict of interest.
Bit dissapointed but I understand and could put a bid in myself.

My thinking was I could save the estate around 3-4k on advertising and legal cost and make a few bob myself however it's all getting a bit messy .
To be fair I did ask other relatives to join me in a stake if the flat but I think they are looking online and see flats at 210k and believe this one will go for similar.
Unfortunately this one has been smoked in for years and needs lots of work to bring up to standard.
We shall see what offers come in.
2 users thanked Mogish for this post.
Tim D on 20/01/2022(UTC), Fife Clive on 20/01/2022(UTC)
Mogish
Posted: 20 January 2022 16:07:01(UTC)
#5

Joined: 15/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 85

Btw, probate valuation came in at 175k.
1 user thanked Mogish for this post.
Tim D on 20/01/2022(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 21 January 2022 09:55:36(UTC)
#6

Joined: 09/03/2011(UTC)
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It sounds as if your aunt's estate may well be below the threshold for Inheritance Tax, but if it is not, something else you ought to consider. You say Probate Value is £175k but you think an appropriate value would be £210k. If a transaction takes place at the higher value, that would be a Capital Gain but if the transaction is reasonably soon after death (i.e. within, say, a year) it is possible that HMRC will require that the higher value is substituted for Probate Value for IHT purposes.

In other words, if your aunt's estate is below the IHT threshold, you would wish to use whatever figure you pay as Probate Value, thereby avoiding a potential CGT charge, but if the estate is liable to IHT (40%), you would wish to argue that the difference between Probate Value and the subsequent sale price was a Capital Gain (20%).
1 user thanked jeffian for this post.
Tim D on 21/01/2022(UTC)
Seaworthy Evans
Posted: 24 January 2022 12:33:07(UTC)
#7

Joined: 22/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1

Stamp Duty Reduction: If you are one of a number of beneficiaries and wish to buy the property, then remember that you can take your inheritance as a share of the property and on that part you avoid SDLT (you woud pay it on the rest).

the other thing you can consider, depending on your circumstances and relationship with the other beneficiaries, is for the other beneficiaries to redirect their inheritance to you, then you take the property in its entirety as inheritance and avoid SDLT altogether.
Tim D
Posted: 24 January 2022 21:48:57(UTC)
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Is it https://espc.com/propert...nburgh-eh6-8jz/36062266 by any chance? Appeared on the site today I think, and apparently less "spiffed up" than a lot of the competition. I assume "In addition, it provides scope for modernisation" is estate-agent speak for all the sort of stuff you said needed doing to it.
Dennis .
Posted: 25 January 2022 09:55:00(UTC)
#10

Joined: 26/12/2007(UTC)
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I am currently going through something like this. I am an Executor on a relative's estate and there is a provision in the Will for one family member to be given a first refusal option to buy a house (it's on a farm and needs to be kept as part of the farm) . In order to reach an agreed price and stop yourself or the Executors getting sued by a disgruntled relative we had to get a professional probate valuation done (this is more than an estate agent just showing up and giving an idea of what to price it for ) which costs about £1k. In this situation part of the family who are beneficiaries wants a high valuation and the buyer obviously wants a low one. I have ended up with a family meeting where I presented the valuation (which was lower than everyone expected) and got them to agree to an offer price.
1 user thanked Dennis . for this post.
Tim D on 25/01/2022(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 25 January 2022 10:12:06(UTC)
#11

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@Dennis: from my own experience with this sort of thing, it seems to be well known that probate valuations are deliberately on the low side. It's less clear to me exactly why that is... I have heard that it's because executors will usually want to prioritize a quick sale over hanging around waiting for a better offer. But it also obviously helps with keeping some estates under IHT thresholds.

Hard to find anything concrete written down on the topic, but at https://www.butlersherbo...ommon-queries-explained (my bold):
Quote:
6. Is a Probate valuation lower than the market value?

Valuations for Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax and Stamp Duty Land Tax purposes are based on the statutory definition of market value, which is:

‘The price which the property might reasonably be expected to fetch if sold in the open market at that time, but that price must not be assumed to be reduced on the grounds that the whole property is to be placed on the market at one and the same time’.

In applying this valuation definition, a ‘market value’ is therefore required for probate purposes. However the skill of a Chartered Surveyor undertaking the valuation is to advise on a value that is still acceptable under the terms of the statutory definition, but that ensures that the Executors pay as little tax as possible.


My experience is also that family and money matters do not mix well. Good luck!
2 users thanked Tim D for this post.
Fife Clive on 25/01/2022(UTC), NoMoreKickingCans on 09/03/2022(UTC)
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