Jonathan Friend;255153 wrote:ANDREW FOSTER;255151 wrote:
Anyone that wants a real viewpoint on the conflict might care to download the Telegram App and join a couple of the direct channels. There one can then see the real truth of the situation, free of mass media filtering.
Spook's Telegram is a Ukrainian channel and there are a good number of Russian MilBlogger ones too, though harder to access.
Be warned it is not for those of a delicate disposition.
Many bits of footage shown have been recovered from phones taken from dead or captured Russian troops. It's careless to be captured with filmed evidence of one's crimes. It leaves zero room for imagination and doesn't need a narrative placed on top of it.
Having watched some of this stuff, then listening to talk of people 'learning to live together' or sitting around a table and working out a deal just sounds frankly ludicrous.
So your answer is to carry on with the war and create more such footage is it?
Yes.
The only chance for such footage to cease is defeat of Russian forces on the ground and ejecting them. If they win, the scenes will continue in 101 camps, basements and roadside graves. Stopping support merely turns a stalemate into a slaughter and refugee crisis and brutal subjugation.
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Or do you have some fantasy in mind where the good guys, who never lied about anything or committed any atrocities, will win and then all will be well?
No, all will not be well. Not for many many decades. But it will be better if Ukraine wins than if Russia wins. better for Ukraine. Better for the West. And the West can pick between the two outcomes. Doing nothing is picking the second...
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Gimme a break. I won't comment on whose phones have allegedly been found or the footage on them, or who has committed worse sins than the other. No doubt the troops on the Ukrainian side have been angels towards the Russian populations they've encountered - it's not like their government was ever oppressing those people or anything...
I don't know. I've certainly not seen footage on either Ukrainian or Russian channels of Ukrainian atrocities. But seen plenty of the reverse. Some things may have gone on, its likely. But I haven't seen any of it.
You don't have to comment. But don't accuse those that have seen the stuff of swallowing Western propaganda when you decline to see the full picture. Try it, I dare you ;-)
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We are dealing with a nuclear power that will not back down, Andrew. It isn't Team America vs a Middle Eastern or North African weakling.
The entire Cold War was a series of proxy wars. None of them went nuclear. Besides, Russia says they will not use nukes and apparently they can be trusted in what they say.
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You know better than to talk such crap. We are not going to make things better here. Best thing is, Russia annexes the parts that are, in fact, Russian, and the rest is a new Ukraine with a delimitarised zone between them. Not ideal, but sadly Ukraine's corrupt and stupid leaders ignored the pleas to stay neutral. What a mess they've got themselves and their people into. And Russia, now thst bit closer to Europe, not what any of us wanted.
Escalation isn't in anybody's interests.
So the 'best outcome' is Russia winning. Interesting.
But they aren't parts that are Russian.
And the Russians signed a treaty in 1991 agreeing that. So...what makes them Russian in your eyes, when the borders were agreed and guaranteed by Russia.
As for escalation, it's happening with those 500,000 new Russian troops and 800 new(ish) tanks. Escalation is coming whether you like it or not.
Any Russians in Ukraine can return home to Russia. What, they were born in Ukraine you say? Then they are Ukrainians then aren't they.
But to think that Russia would stick to any agreement is bizarre when they utterly broke the 1991 one. You can't make an agreement with them. History shows this. Any treaty would merely allow Russia to re-arm, reform and then go for another slice. We know that because.....
that is their declared aim.