Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

The Economy Now
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 24 May 2024 09:05:30(UTC)
#1

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

Thanks: 4548 times
Was thanked: 8771 time(s) in 3091 post(s)
All seems to be getting rather cloudy and contradictory out there. Retail sales down in April, certainly consumers not buying certain goods to the same extent eg Flooring etc. Yet we are told the economy is growing and inflation still not tamed.

Well surely all these price rises have impoverished the ordinary consumer ? Rents and housing costs hugely up. Energy costs much higher than prepandemic. Copper prices shooting up. Council taxes up and allowances frozen. Everyone sucking on the consumers pocket yet apparently the worry is that ‘too much money is chasing too few goods’ and this must be borne down on with high rates.

It seems to me that inflation has nothing to do with the consumer. It is the direct consequence of government political choices to interfere in the economy in gross and dysfunctional ways based on nothing but the virtue narrative of Covid and now anthropogenic climate emergency and war. This is deliberately forcing energy prices ever upwards, and deliberately raising demand for copper based goods. So we are potentially wreaking the costs of the great con. You cannot solve input cost driven inflation caused by deliberate gov policy by holding/raising interest rates - or rather you can but the impact has to be recession because consumer demand IS NOT THE CAUSE. The people must shrink their lives back to pay for government folly.

We need a return to the proper duties of government including facilitating cheap and copious amounts of energy and allowing market economics to drive this not subsidies and central dictat about banning gas boilers and ICE cars and the such like.

Where are we going now ? Into recession not recovery ? Misguided economic self sabotage ?
13 users thanked NoMoreKickingCans for this post.
Dexi on 24/05/2024(UTC), Sara G on 24/05/2024(UTC), Lindisfarne on 24/05/2024(UTC), Jay P on 24/05/2024(UTC), Martina on 24/05/2024(UTC), Hilda Ogden on 24/05/2024(UTC), Newbie on 24/05/2024(UTC), Guest on 24/05/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 24/05/2024(UTC), Guest on 25/05/2024(UTC), wydffart on 26/05/2024(UTC), Harland Kearney on 08/06/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC)
Dexi
Posted: 24 May 2024 09:37:18(UTC)
#2

Joined: 03/04/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,752

Thanks: 7823 times
Was thanked: 3093 time(s) in 1228 post(s)
NoMoreKickingCans;306717 wrote:
The people must shrink their lives back to pay for government folly.

We need a return to the proper duties of government


Well said . Unfortunately , the only things govs. think about are their electoral chances and their standing in the polls .
Letting Covid take it`s course without shutting down the economy would have been sensible , but unacceptable to the public . Similarly , climate change is now accepted as fact and anyone who goes against this is labelled as some kind of right wing extremist .
With inflation and rates - things look to be going the right way , except for services .
A good summary of the outlook can be found on the latest CGT end of year report ( inflation and rates likely to be higher than expected going forward ).
6 users thanked Dexi for this post.
Sara G on 24/05/2024(UTC), Lindisfarne on 24/05/2024(UTC), Jay P on 24/05/2024(UTC), Martina on 24/05/2024(UTC), Guest on 26/05/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 24 May 2024 09:44:50(UTC)
#3

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 4,045

Thanks: 13083 times
Was thanked: 16863 time(s) in 3514 post(s)
The main inflationary pressures seem to be from services rather than goods and energy, from what I have read. Could it be that companies are charging more for services to meet increased salaries and higher taxes? Also wages generally have definitely risen significantly over the last year or so, meaning that governments fear greater purchasing power as prices for goods fall, so are perhaps keeping rates higher for longer as a preemptive measure.

As to how the economy can be growing when consumers and taxpayers are feeling under pressure, perhaps it is down to population growth. We're always hearing that GDP per capita is stagnant or falling, while overall GDP may be heading upwards.
5 users thanked Sara G for this post.
Lindisfarne on 24/05/2024(UTC), Dexi on 24/05/2024(UTC), Martina on 24/05/2024(UTC), Peanuts on 25/05/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 24 May 2024 10:32:10(UTC)
#4

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,685

Thanks: 5673 times
Was thanked: 11113 time(s) in 4253 post(s)

I prefer to take an independent view and not get bogged down with all the local issues. ie how Global Investors look at us from the outside and how sterling has been firm against the dollar under Rishi Sunak
leadership.

Also we are making better progress compared with France,Germany and US where our economy is growing faster.
3 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Busy doing nothing on 24/05/2024(UTC), Guest on 24/05/2024(UTC), Thrugelmir on 24/05/2024(UTC)
Hilda Ogden
Posted: 24 May 2024 10:52:38(UTC)
#7

Joined: 31/07/2023(UTC)
Posts: 892

Thanks: 750 times
Was thanked: 1751 time(s) in 636 post(s)
Great post by NMKC. Agree with every word. Add in government over spending and excessively harsh taxation and you have a recipe for a very unpleasant economic outcome indeed. Hence the early election. Labour are really going to struggle with a very poisoned chalice. It's part of the Conservativeparty plan of course, to try to limit Labour to a one term government. By the end of the first term of a Labour administration things are likely to be (even more) dreadful.
4 users thanked Hilda Ogden for this post.
Chalky W on 24/05/2024(UTC), Busy doing nothing on 24/05/2024(UTC), Guest on 24/05/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC)
Hilda Ogden
Posted: 24 May 2024 10:54:21(UTC)
#5

Joined: 31/07/2023(UTC)
Posts: 892

Thanks: 750 times
Was thanked: 1751 time(s) in 636 post(s)
Big boy;306729 wrote:

I prefer to take an independent view and not get bogged down with all the local issues. ie how Global Investors look at us from the outside and how sterling has been firm against the dollar under Rishi Sunak
leadership.

Also we are making better progress compared with France,Germany and US where our economy is growing faster.

Is it?

Allegedly GDP per head of population is falling. Most people are getting relatively poorer.
5 users thanked Hilda Ogden for this post.
Big boy on 24/05/2024(UTC), D Bergman on 24/05/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 24/05/2024(UTC), MartinY on 26/05/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC)
SSJ
Posted: 24 May 2024 18:05:54(UTC)
#12

Joined: 13/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 512

Hilda Ogden;306732 wrote:

Allegedly GDP per head of population is falling. Most people are getting relatively poorer.

Yes, according to ONS data...
https://www.ons.gov.uk/e...gdp/timeseries/ihxw/qna

And of course if I sell you a coffee, that adds to GDP. If you sell me a sausage roll back then we are all rich beyond our dreams!
Thrugelmir
Posted: 25 May 2024 03:02:45(UTC)
#6

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,331

Thanks: 3258 times
Was thanked: 7891 time(s) in 3269 post(s)
Hilda Ogden;306732 wrote:
Big boy;306729 wrote:

I prefer to take an independent view and not get bogged down with all the local issues. ie how Global Investors look at us from the outside and how sterling has been firm against the dollar under Rishi Sunak
leadership.

Also we are making better progress compared with France,Germany and US where our economy is growing faster.

Is it?

Allegedly GDP per head of population is falling. Most people are getting relatively poorer.


GDP doesn’t reflect where the profit flows to.
1 user thanked Thrugelmir for this post.
SSJ on 27/05/2024(UTC)
allocator3844
Posted: 06 June 2024 07:58:12(UTC)
#13

Joined: 27/10/2020(UTC)
Posts: 190

GDP needs to be split between different products. If we all start drinking a bottle of whiskey a day this will increase GDP unless we are forgoing something else. Either way GDP does not necessarily relate to quality of life. Selfishly I am only concerned with my own (and family / friends / community) GDP / inflation rate which I can control quite easily. If anything my expenses / spending are going down so I would not be good for the economy ?
Robin B
Posted: 08 June 2024 00:26:38(UTC)
#14

Joined: 01/04/2024(UTC)
Posts: 1,523

Thanks: 1519 times
Was thanked: 4639 time(s) in 1247 post(s)
Here is an example of how GDP works:

- Two women stay at home to look after their children. They don't contribute to GDP.

- Same two women mind each others children and pay one another for the service. They contribute to GDP.

The machinery of government is making thousands of far reaching decisions based on this metric...
4 users thanked Robin B for this post.
Guest on 08/06/2024(UTC), Captain Slugwash on 08/06/2024(UTC), Nigel Harris on 09/06/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 09/06/2024(UTC)
3 Pages123Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets