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water meters good or bad,plus up to date comments regarding water.
BOB 2
Posted: 05 February 2016 11:56:59(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

JEL G you are very lucky to have low water bills , but as i have stated before some people are paying over a £1000 and more a year for there water,and have to be constantly trying to be careful
on how much they use. this is where the total unfairness of the charging system kicks in.
houses fitted with a water meter are subsidising houses paying for water on a rateable value.
i don't mean to go on , but how on earth can this be a fair

HOUSES FITTED WITH WATER METERS
1.paying for every litre of water they use, and whatever that figure is, charged for the same amount for sewage removal,
2. stuck with the water supply company ,that supplies them with water, having no option
to transfer to a cheaper water supplier,

HOUSES CHARGED ON A RATEABLE VALUE FIXED CHARGE.
1.unless it's changed you can have unlimited people living in the house, and use a unlimited
amount of water, all for a fixed rateable value price.

I can't see anything wrong with water meters, providing every household in the country is fitted with one, and given the option to swap to another supplier as electricity and gas.

There is a program of compulsive fitting of water meters in some parts of the country.
what needs to to implemented is a date whereby all domestic households have to be fitted with
a water meter, say 2020
JEL G
Posted: 05 February 2016 14:23:54(UTC)

Joined: 29/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 60

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 60 time(s) in 22 post(s)
Forgive me BOB 2 but as I said before nothing in life is ever fair. This is the way of the world and will always be so.

For instance my wife got her full State Pension at 60 however now working women will have to wait until they are 66.

I am alive and healthy and in my late 60's however my dear brother died in 1991 when he was only 34.

Life is never fair and never will be...........................

1 user thanked JEL G for this post.
Guest on 04/05/2016(UTC)
colin overton
Posted: 05 February 2016 14:46:07(UTC)

Joined: 26/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 320

The problem I see with paying for your water by the cubic meter- is that United Utilities actually charge quite large fixed costs. So although I am on a meter I pay more fixed charge than for the water I use. Also although I only use rain water on my garden, so reducing the load on the storm water drains I can't obtain a reduction in this part of United Utilities charging. One last negative of a meter is that the value is plastic as is the extension handle to turn the water off. So after a few years this won't turn off properly. United Utilities came to inspect this issue and their engineer said that he thought a partially closed value was OK, as there would only be a slow flood! As others have said we need competition in the water supply business not this legalised monopoly
BOB 2
Posted: 05 February 2016 18:25:13(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

JEL G
I am probably the same age as you, 6 and ? sixty ..... I agree with you that nothing in life is ever fair , I put it now to luck, we have made it to sixty odd ,but as probably you have , in the past have had some close shaves with deaf, as I have.
Now getting back to the unfair water charging system in this country, as i have stated before
a young family can save quite a lot of money on water charges, by buying a older house with rateable value water charges, I know in some areas, if the house is sold a water meter must be fitted before the new owners move in. but not all water supply companies request this.
water years ago was so cheap you didn't even give it a thought about the cost, but can you imagine having to pay over £1000 a year for your water, family's of four must find it a nightmare
paying large water bills on top of all other bills, Cornwall was one of the highest charged areas in the UK for water and even though they have had a reduction i bet there still get high combined water bills.

its not a big deal for the Government to tell ofwat to advise the water companies that they have until 2020 to make sure every household is fitted with a water meter, and set up a switching
system so customers can swap to a better set of charges, by doing this it will create competition as Colin stated and bills should come down , at the moment some people are paying 50% more for less water,

backspace
Posted: 08 February 2016 11:40:54(UTC)

Joined: 11/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1

I used to have a monthly direct debit .without a water meter .i contacted the water company and had a meter installed since then my bills are only about a third of what i used to pay .the only downside is you then have to have insurance to cover any problems you might have with the pipework from the boundry to the entry into the house .with this additional cost which is minimal the savings are still very worthwhile.
normski 2nd
Posted: 15 February 2016 14:43:53(UTC)

Joined: 20/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 41

Afternoon all,

Are you sure Backspace that you have to have insurance cover for the pipework? As I understand it the householder has always ben responsible for the pipework from the mains. Did the water company sell you the insurance?. Underground pipework should be covered by normal household ins.

norm
BOB 2
Posted: 15 February 2016 19:59:56(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

Who is responsible for what, re water supply to your house
Ofwat http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/...standards/supply-pipes/

WESSEXWATER https://www.wessexwater.co.uk/pipework/

YORKSHIREWATER
https://www.yorkshirewat..._Whose%20Pipe%20Web.pdf

THAMES WATER
https://www.thameswater....ic-code-of-practice.pdf

SOUTHWEST WATER
http://www.southeastwate...ions/pipework-explained

ME bob, it seems the property owner is responsible for the pipe work that runs across their property, but as in my case i have a water meter and stop cock within my boundary line that belongs to the water company infarct it’s 18” away from the house wall, so i am hoping my reasonability is for the 18”plus before it Connects to my house internal stop cock.
1 user thanked BOB 2 for this post.
normski 2nd on 16/02/2016(UTC)
Clive B
Posted: 16 February 2016 09:51:35(UTC)

Joined: 25/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 508

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"it seems the property owner is responsible for the pipe work that runs across their property"

not if it's a pipe that's shared with other properties. I learnt this last Friday when the drains were blocked, called in a private contractor who said "the blocked pipe is shared with your two neighbours (even though it's on your property), hence responsibility of Thames Water". Call made to Thames Water, they sent a contractor who cleared it for free !
1 user thanked Clive B for this post.
BOB 2 on 16/02/2016(UTC)
Micawber
Posted: 16 February 2016 13:25:30(UTC)

Joined: 27/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,975

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That's correct as far a shared drains are concerned: it is the provider's responsibility (at least in the case of Thames Water's area) up to the point at which a drain is identifiably leading to one property only. i.e. up to the Y or T junction, or up to the manhole that takes several pipes from different single properties

However, while drains are often shared under private property e.g. with semidetached pairs of houses, mains water is usually supplied individually from outside the property and the supply pipe is the property owner's responsibility from the boundary of the street to the property.
1 user thanked Micawber for this post.
Clive B on 16/02/2016(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 17 February 2016 10:08:27(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

INTERESTING 17/02/2016
Water. The government is driving water market competition. Business and other nonhousehold customers will be able to switch suppliers from 2017. Ofwat will provide an assessment by summer 2016 of the costs and benefits of extending retail competition to household water customers. Following this, the government will work with water companies to begin the transition to household retail competition before the end of this Parliament.

FOR MORE CLICK https://www.gov.uk/gover...ies_and_firms_print.pdf


13 January 2016
The Public Accounts Committee publishes report calling for the water regulator, Ofwat, to adopt new measures intended to secure a better deal for customers
• Report: Economic regulation of the water sector
• Report: Economic regulation of the water sector (PDF 153KB)
• Inquiry: Economic regulation of the water sector
• Public Accounts Committee
In its Fifteenth Report of this Session, the Committee concludes Ofwat has consistently over-estimated water companies’ financing and tax costs when setting price limits.
As a result, water companies made windfall gains of at least £1.2 billion between 2010 and 2015 from bills being higher than necessary.
The Committee finds Ofwat’s efforts to ensure these gains were shared with customers “secured limited results that varied significantly” from company to company.
Financial support for customers who struggle to pay water bills also varies substantially.
Other concerns raised by the Committee include customers in areas of water scarcity paying to develop expensive new capacity, when water trading with other companies might be more cost-effective.
Among its recommendations, the Committee urges Ofwat to review its approach to setting allowances for the cost of debt and corporation tax, and report publicly on what actions it intends to take to improve its performance.
It also calls on the regulator to use comparisons with other sectors and international suppliers to develop a clearer picture of what services should cost if provided efficiently.
Chair's comments
Meg Hillier MP, Chair of the PAC, said today:
"Ofwat was set up to protect the interests of customers, most of whom have no choice over who supplies their water yet must pay bills typically running to hundreds of pounds.
Many householders will therefore be appalled to learn these bills could have been smaller had Ofwat adopted a different approach to setting price limits for water companies.
This approach must be reviewed as a priority. We are also calling for greater transparency over windfall gains made by water suppliers, and more effective action to see these gains passed on to customers.
There should be consistent financial support for people who struggle to pay their water bills, which can amount to a significant chunk of household spending, and accompanying measures to ensure those people know what help is available.
These and other concerns set out in our Report represent significant and pressing challenges for Ofwat.
It must move swiftly to develop and present clear plans to achieve a better deal for customers, both now and in the years ahead."
Background
The water industry in England and Wales, privatised in 1989, now includes 18 large independent privately-owned companies who are monopoly suppliers to 22 million households and to most of the 2 million non-household customers.
The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Welsh government set the policy and legislative framework for the water industry in England and Wales.
Ofwat is the independent economic regulator of the water industry. Its main statutory duties include: protecting the interests of consumers; securing the long-term resilience of water supply and wastewater systems; and ensuring that companies carry out their functions and are able to finance them.
Companies are funded from customer bills and financed through private investment. Ofwat sets limits to the prices companies may charge for 5-year periods, allowing for operational and financing costs of delivering services to customers, and making assumptions about the efficiency improvements that companies should make.
The average household bill in 2014-15 was £396.
Report summary
The Water Services Regulation Authority’s (Ofwat’s) approach to setting price limits for water companies in England and Wales has not resulted in the best possible deal for customers.
By consistently overestimating financing costs, Ofwat has allowed companies to make windfall gains which have not been shared in a structured way to ensure customers get a fair deal.
Ofwat uses comparisons between water companies to help improve overall efficiency, but acknowledges that it should do more to benchmark companies’ costs with other sectors and internationally, to ensure that the amounts customers are charged are minimised.
Ofwat should also do more to promote water trading between companies instead of developing expensive new supplies.
Further information
• About Parliament: Select committees
• Visiting Parliament: Watch committees

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More news on: Energy and environment, Parliament, government and politics, Parliament, Business, industry and consumers, Water,Water industry, Regulation, Utilities, House of Commons news,Commons news, Committee news
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