Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

water meters good or bad,plus up to date comments regarding water.
BOB 2
Posted: 03 May 2016 23:21:58(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

REMINDER

Box 1.A: Helping households – summary of action
Water. The government is driving water market competition. Business and other non household
customers will be able to switch suppliers from 2017. Ofwat will provide an
assessment by summer 2016 of the costs and benefits of extending retail competition to
household water customers. Following this, the government will work with water companies
to begin the transition to household retail competition before the end of this Parliament.
Banking. The government will boost competition in banking with the establishment of a
New Bank Start-Up Unit, making it easier for new banks to enter the market. It will also take
steps to help consumers find the best bank for them. Switching can save the average
customer £70 a year and heavy overdraft users £260 a year.
Broadband. Pricing in this market often lacks transparency. The Advertising Standards
Authority (ASA) is looking at whether teaser rates on broadband deals are misleading
consumers, and the government expects the ASA to take swift action to ensure that prices
are made clearer and costs are not hidden. Total costs can be £240 a year higher than the
headline introductory rate.
Legal services. The government will further reduce barriers so that it is easier for alternative
business structures, such as supermarkets and estate agents, to offer legal services like
conveyancing, probate and litigation in England and Wales.
Pharmacies. The government will examine the NHS community pharmacy market to ensure
that the regulatory framework and payments system are efficient, encourage competition
and innovation, and facilitate on-line, delivery to door and click and collect, pharmacy and
prescription services. This will save time for working people.
Dentistry. Pricing for dentistry can be opaque and confusing. The government will ensure
that dentist treatment plans and price lists are clear and easily accessible, empowering
patients in England to make the best choices.
Motor insurance. The government intends to end the right to cash compensation for minor
whiplash injuries, removing over £1billion from the cost of providing motor insurance,
equivalent to an average of £40 to £50 saving for each motor insurance policy.
Energy. The government will reduce the projected cost of green policies on the average
annual household energy bill by £30 from 2017. The government will also make switching
supplier easier and quicker. The average household could currently save £160 from switching
supplier.
Mobile phones. Consumers can face costs of up to £20 to unlock their phones with an
estimated £48 million spent per year. The government expects industry to start automatically
unlocking customers’ handsets at the end of their contracts, and will consult in 2016 on
ending the practice of handset locking for customers outside any initial contract period.
School uniforms. The government will ensure that parents and carers get the best value deals
on school uniforms in England. Analysis shows that parents and carers are significantly less
likely to report financial hardship when schools allow them to purchase uniform from a
variety of suppliers.
Jon Snow
Posted: 05 May 2016 01:10:20(UTC)

Joined: 02/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,172

BOB, we went onto a meter and our bills went from £1,400 to around £500 pa. Not sure that will help you. Sure helped me.
BOB 2
Posted: 05 May 2016 22:48:37(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

Water charges down, update dated 5/5/2016

Our charges Wessex water
From 1 April 2016
Water - Sewerage - standing charges



Water charge £2.1005 for a cubic metre or 1000 litres
Sewage £1.7966 for cubic metre or 1000 litres, based on above water you use
Water standing charge £24 year
Sewage standing charge £54 a year
£2.1005 +£1.7966 = (£3.8971) for using a 1000 litres of water not including standing charges.


Number of People Living at Home ANNUAL WATER USAGE IN CUBIC METRES
------Low / Average / High
1---- 45 / 66 / 100
2---- 55 / 110 / 136
3---- 82 / 136 / 175
4---- 110 / 165 / 210
5---- 136 / 182 / 245
6---- 155 / 200 / 265
Water Meter Calculator
Number of people living at home ANNUAL WATER USAGE IN CUBIC METRES LITRES PER DAY
PEOPLE
1- DAY 54 LITRES ANNUAL 149 IN LITRES
2- DAY101 LITRES ANNUAL 276
3- DAY134 LITRES ANNUAL 367
4- DAY 164 LITRES ANNUAL 450
5 - DAY 191 LITRES ANNUAL 523
6- DAY 216 LITRES ANNUAL 592
7- DAY 239 LITRES ANNUAL 655
- See more at: http://www.ccwater.org.u...e/#sthash.BuN7lJYu.dpuf

yes you can save money by installing a water meter, but you have to do your sums first
we know the average usage is approx.150 litres a day for each person x 7=1050 litres a week
BELOW IS BASED ON CHART 2
so one person on the average charge annual bill 54 x £3.8971=£210.44 +S.C £78 =£288.44

Two people on the average charge annual bill 101 x £3.8971=£393.61+SC £78 = £471.61

Three people on the average charge annual bill 134 x £3.8971=£522.21+SC £78 =£600.21

Four people on the average charge annual bill 164 x £3.8971= £639.12+SC £78 =£717.12

THIS IS BASED ON WESSEX WATER 2016 CHARGES

Look at chart 1 the annual usage can differ for 1 person from 45 cubic metres to 100 cubic mts.
so if you had 3 people on high usage 175 x £3.8971 =£681.99 + £78 sc =£759.99 or even higher.
Jon Snow
Posted: 06 May 2016 00:04:43(UTC)

Joined: 02/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,172

BOB 2

We went to a meter with Yorkshire Water 2 years ago. Our costs went from £1,400 pa (that's why I went metered) to around £500 pa. I spent a lot of time trying to find out what the actual charges per unit (m3) were, then they hit me with the standing charge.

At that point I thought we've saved £700 pa life is too short, move on.

BTW my mums water bill is about £27/quarter ! Those oldies eh!
Jon Snow
Posted: 06 May 2016 00:23:27(UTC)

Joined: 02/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,172

kWIKSAVE;33108 wrote:
those without a meter could consider investing in an AIM stock Smart Metering Systems


MRO #cough a bit late.
BOB 2
Posted: 07 May 2016 19:58:23(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

interesting article from the independent

A | Because Britain’s privatised water industry is an effective monopoly and nobody has a choice over who provides their water and sewage services, all price rises have to be approved by the regulator, Ofwat. Annual price rises or cuts are usually set every five years so that companies can plan long-term investment decisions with certainty.

Q | So what has the Public Accounts Committee found?

A | Parliament’s spending watchdog claims that, over the last five-year period, the water companies have charged us over £1.2bn more than they should have done – and Ofwat has let it happen.

Q | How could they do this?

A | Ofwat made assumptions about the cost of borrowing, levels of taxation and other costs facing the industry, which turned out to be inaccurate. As a result of the assumptions, the companies were far more in profit than they were meant to be.

Q | So consumers will get this money back now, right?

A | Wrong. Ofwat has no power to claw the money back by lowering future bills.

bob me comment , if you can claim back PPI from Banks why not be able to claim back UOC
unnecessary over charging from water companies .what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
JOHN MANNINGS
Posted: 22 September 2019 17:18:50(UTC)

Joined: 22/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
BOB 2;25796 wrote:
07/12/14
When they state average,they mean average across the board, that's combined water metered charges and combined rateable value charges . not a true breakdown of what people are paying
on meters and rateable value
what they need to do is break the average down to average water metered combined charge £........ and average rateable value combined charge£...... and then we can see the difference.
below is a list of average charges up to April 2015

Average household bills in 2014-15
Water and sewerage companies Average bill Increase
SOURCE: CONSUMER COUNCIL FOR WATER
Anglian
£431
1.6%
Dwr Cymru Welsh Water
£440
1.3%
Northumbrian
£364
0.6%
Severn Trent

£333
1.1%
South West
£495
-3%
Southern
£437
2.6%
Thames
£370
3.4%
United Utilities
£410
1.8%
Wessex
£485
1.3%
Yorkshire
£373
1.5%
Water only companies
Average bill
Increase
Affinity - central
£175
0.6%
Affinity - east
£172
1.5%
Affinity - south east
£205
0.6%
Bristol
£202
5%
Cambridge
£129
1.3%
Dee Valley
£152
3.2%
Essex and Suffolk
£227
2.4%
Portsmouth
£97
2.4%
Sembcorp Bournemouth
£153
-2.5%
South East
£201
0.1%
South Staffs
£144
1.3%
Sutton & East Surrey
£186

12/12/14 interesting comments found YES people are paying over £1000 a year on a meter.

1.1%fbog • 9 hours ago
If you think water increases are bad before they make you fit a water meter think again. My water bill for a family of four before was ~£400..It's now >£1,000 a year..and we are using less water.
.........................................................................................................................................
.
Sarah-Lou, Devon, United Kingdom, about 21 hours ago
I currently pay south west water £131 per month or £1572 per year it's the biggest bill I pay after my rent. It's about time that a law was put into place that means that metered water is charged at the same rate whatever part of the UK you live in. Also a bit of honesty on the part of the water companies would be nice, instead of banging on about average costs they should be reporting actual costs.
.........................................................................................................................................
.
just to say..., Milton Keynes, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
I live in Buckinghamshire in a one bedroom flat in a nice area. Anglian Water sent their statement for the next year through today and my water bill has TRIPLED. Water is water, it should be the same price across the country.
.........................................................................................................................................

and water for water companies
Shareholders in South West Water owner Pennon got a boost as the firm hiked its interim dividend despite a fall in half year profits after freezing prices for customers this year.
Pennon saw its first half pre-tax profits fall 10 per cent to £100million although revenues climbed 3.8 per cent to £3.69billion, and it increased the dividend by 6.3 per cent to 9.98p a share.
Freezing prices this year at South West Water meant that profits at that business fell by £1.1million to £86.2million.

12/12/14
UK households will see water bills rise on average by £5 next year to over £400 despite the industry regulator today said tariffs will fall by 5 per cent between 2015 and 2020.
The average UK water bill will fall from £396 to £376 in real terms in the next five years, Ofwat said today as it announced the final tariffs that companies can charge from April 2015 until April 2020.
However, since companies are allowed to increase their tariffs each year in line with retail price inflation, households are likely to see their water bills rise. Experts at money.co.uk calculate that including the effect of inflation, based on the current 2.3 per cent rate of RPI, a typical bill will rise by £5 to £401 next year and by £26 to £422 by 2020.

+1
Water bills: Customers will pay more despite cuts as firms are allowed to increase tariffs in line with inflation
Tony Smith, chief executive of CCWater, hailed Ofwat's final decision to force all 10 water companies to cut bills as 'good news' and 'a victory for most water customers'.
But added: 'Customers need to be aware that water companies are allowed to add inflation to bills each year which means charges are still likely to rise from what they are now. That will hurt some households.'
Ofwat's real-terms cut mean Anglian customers will experience the biggest drop, with water bills down 10 per cent from £431 to £390 by 2020. But if inflation is counted in, Anglian customers will actually see bills rise by £6 in five years.
South West will remain the most expensive supplier despite one of the larger cuts - a 7 per cent drop in its annual charge from £545 to £506. Counting in inflation, however, annual bills are expected to rise to £569.

More...
Water firms told to cut household bills as their borrowing costs come down
United Utilities customers could see water bills fall by 4% over the next five years
The snug tricks to save on energy and water bills in winter
Severn Trent, which will be forced to lower its bills by 5 per cent from £333, will still have the cheapest annual tariff at £316, according to Ofwat. But annual bills could rise to £354 by 2020 if rising in line with inflation.
The smallest cut will come from Northumbrian, which is to lower its water bills by just 1 per cent to £382 a year.
Thames Water, the UK's biggest water firm with 15million customers, was told to cut bills by 5 per cent – but the figure is not definitive and customers could end up benefiting from smaller cuts after details about the costs of building the Thames Tideway Tunnel are confirmed.
Thames Water had asked Ofwat to raise bills by 3 per cent, or about £8 each year, over the next five years to help pay for the £4.2billion Thames’ 25km sewer to deal with the problem of too much sewage overflowing into the River Thames.
Ofwat rejected its request and told it instead to raise bills.
Thames Water was one of three companies told in August that its plans for bills over the period fell well short of Ofwat's provisional expectations. The others were Bristol Water and United Utilities, which serves households in North West England


bobs comment ref averages.
i think there is something seriously wrong with the so called average,when some people are paying £10000 a year for combined water/sewage bills on a meter
i have e.mailed ofwat requesting a average for rateable value combined water bills and combined water metered customers bills ,so we have two averages , but no answer yet , it may be quite eye opening to see the difference, as you can see below average in s.west is £506 and average in Portsmouth is £96 water only, even if you doubled that to say £192 allowing for waste charge ???????? figures do not make sense how on earth can this be a fair
system when in one area the average £506 and another area it's only approx,£192.
unless in Portsmouth most of the houses are on rateable value charge?
or even worse Sara above comment in Lou in Devon paying £1,572.00 a year .crazy charges
what we need is two AVERAGES 1. for water metered customers and 1. for Rateable value charged customers, then we mite see the big difference of being on a meter.


REF OFWAT
Changes in Water Bills 2015 to 2019
Company Average bill by 2019, before RPI Average change, before RPI
Anglian
£390
-10%
Dwr Cymru
£416
-5%
Northumbrian (incl. Essex and Suffolk)
£382
-1%
Severn Trent
£316
-5%
Southern
£403
-8%
South West
£506
-7%
Thames
£353
-5%
United Utilities
£398
-3%
Wessex
£442
-9%
Yorkshire
£361
-3%
Water only companies
Affinity
£163
-7%
Bristol
£202
-21%
Dee Valley
£149
-2%
Portsmouth
£96
-1%
Bournemouth
£134
-12%
South East
£194
-3%
South Staffs (incl. Cambridge)
£135
-4%
Sutton and East Surrey
£180
-3%
NATIONAL AVERAGE ENGLAND AND WALES
£376
-5%
source: Ofwat


22/9/19

I am John Mannings
Hi i just joined today and i have just paid my latest water bill, as i am on a water meter from Welsh Water i thought i would to know what the average water bills so i decided to check the house next door as they are in a similar property and only 2 people but without a water meter i was happy to know that my water bill was very much lower, hers being £672 per 12 mnths she is not a keen gardener and therefore does not waste water unlike the house on the otherside a very keen gardener.He does
not have a water meter i hate to think what his water bill should be.
I have been on a meter for many years .I harvest water 600 liters in 3 large water butts outside my back door sometimes every now then depending on rainfall i have top up with fresh water this has to be done legally tap situated 12 inches or more water level in the butts this is for upstairs toilet.
At this point with only 1 toilet being supplied i have managed to save approx £458.
Taking in to account my figures for water against what has been indicated above, my first reaction was a large family a very keen gardener and lastly an underground water leak .A quick check for a leak turn of the mains tap to the house and check water meter.


1 user thanked JOHN MANNINGS for this post.
john brace on 28/09/2019(UTC)
Jasper40
Posted: 27 September 2019 09:18:44(UTC)

Joined: 10/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 52

Thanks: 130 times
Was thanked: 88 time(s) in 39 post(s)
We are with Wessex Water. Retired couple, 3 bed bungalow, 1/3rd acre garden with large koi pond, greenhouse and lawns. Pond always requires topping up in summer. Productive greenhouse needs water, as does small veg plot, flower borders and tubs. Lawns get a little just to add moisture if very dry. We do have a few water butts which come in handy but these invariably run dry at greatest time of need. We do not waste water but we don’t skimp on it either. Usual household appliances, baths, showers etc. 5 years ago our bill based on rateable value was £913pa. Current annual cost based on actual meter readings is £424pa. Average use approx 100 cubic metres pa.Wish we’d changed to a meter earlier.

There must be something amiss with your supply. It may be worth getting an independent expert to check your supply.

One other point, friends of ours have very low usage of water since moving to an Edwardian terrace town house. They couldn’t understand this as their water usage hasn’t changed in any way. Investigation reveals their meter moves for all water usage except when their toilets are flushed. They are unsure of who is paying for the flushing but it doesn’t appear to be them!!
1 user thanked Jasper40 for this post.
Tim D on 27/09/2019(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 27 September 2019 11:34:47(UTC)

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

jasper wrote
except when their toilets are flushed. They are unsure of who is paying for the flushing but it doesn’t appear to be them!!
it's possible that the previous owner has plumbed in the toilets using rain water from a collection tank
this is a great way to save water usage, i have contemplated doing it my self, but you must change the ball
valves to low pressure type and for some sort of filter in the flow line ,of course it may be the meter has been plumbed into the mains in the wrong place by w,water which is there fault . good luck bob
paul armstrong
Posted: 27 September 2019 14:09:22(UTC)

Joined: 14/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,366

We have a cess pool and currently no meter. Wife is a manic waterer of the garden so have no wish to change. Anglian Water have advised they will fit a meter but owing to the location may be some time doing it: hopefully not at all.
The business must be a zero sum game. Given the record ( and lack of incentive) I doubt that any efficiency savings will be realised and the additional costs of meters has to be recouped somehow.
Suspect it is a bogus business case which claims efficiency gains will offset the extra demand from all the houses they are building in the SE. Bit like smart motorways: innovation claimed to compensate from the lack of much needed additional physical infrastructure.
17 Pages«Previous page1314151617Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets