Getting the UK growing?

We do desperately need to invest in infrastructure for the long term success of this country. This being 'top down' government policy led investment. We have failed to do this for decades.

However I cant help feeling that we need some shorter term 'bottom up' polices to get growth in the near term. This being led by individual consumers and businesses.

Who is best place to create growth? Government or individuals / business?

What should we do to get growth moving quickly?

We really don't need any infrastructure that I can think of...

Things like HS2 are just a drain on the country and don't bring a return. They are scandalously corrupt too.

We need to make stuff that the world wants to buy and sell it abroad to generate wealth. And for the UK that means high tech low volume. So things like aircraft, satallites, defence equipment etc.

The government is crap at funding such things. They pick stupid-ass projects like Hotol, Fusion and Carbon Capture that are invariably utter fails. The best the government can do is create the conditions for private companies to grow and incentivise investment.

That means lower corporate taxes, less regulation, easier planning, no punitive 'green' crap, abolish stamp duty on certain classes of shares etc. etc.

We have to make engineering, manufacturing and science the best investment option there is. Not banking, insurance and estate agency.

And incentivise STEM education with free tuition fees.

But that isn't the way UK governments think. It won't happen and UK decline will continue relentlessly.

Just as a quick straw poll.... did ANYONE here make their money in manufacturing or science? (I did BTW)

In terms of top down measures... ensuring cheap and reliable energy would be a great start. We have the most expensive electricity in the world, low gas storage capacity, and renewables aren't able to take up the slack yet. Unfortunately a lot of the decisions needed to happen decades ago. More nuclear power stations would have helped. But they could help by ceasing their attacks on the fossil fuel industry. Whatever you think of Net Zero (bottomless pit or optimum direction of travel), it isn't going to happen overnight.

I'm not sure about infrastructure, but it's certainly true that we should have been building new reservoirs. The problem is that we are not very good at this type of project in terms of budgets and timescales. NB I think it ought to be possible to build infrastructure and accommodate wildlife - those two things don't have to be diametrically opposed.

I agree with Andrew on education being key, and would emphasise more vocational training and apprenticeships to fill the skills gaps that become apparent as soon as anyone wants to grow a business or build anything.

But to answer the original question, bottom up measures are what's needed in the short term, and generally the opposite to what the current (and to a large extent the previous) government has done so far. Less centralised control, light regulation, lower taxes on businesses and entrepreneurs, and leaders who understand and value the private sector. I don't think we're likely to get any of that imminently.

The struggle between politics and economics

Harland and Wollf was in trouble 100 years ago - it is still in trouble and it is kept alive for political not economic reasons.

The two great recoveries in UK manfacturing in the last 120 years were caused by the wars otherwiseit has been a gradual decline marked by low investment.

maximum growth and social cohesion don't really go together. The education system is poor, we churn out factory cannon fodder when we have no factories and those without capital tend to never have capital

I lived in the good times - my parents never had money. I was paid to go to University twice. I left Uni broke but wanting to work. Someone with my background today will leave Uni owing £50k+. I worked for IBM for many years. They invested heavily in me, trained me and gave me mentors who taught me what I use today

Government laid the groundwork that I benefitted from and I pay a horrible amount in tax as a result. The NPV on the investment the country made in me is high.

Changing the university fee structure and reintroducing grants (there is some of this) for jobs the country needs is investment that has a definite return. If someone wants to be an archaeologist - that's great but funding needs to be related to need ----- there is no poimnt in churning out 30000 archaeologists a year from low quality courses when we need 500

I also thinkl we need mobility housing. Subsidised housing of fixed tenure eg 18 months to help people make a start in a new area and find their feet.

The role of government is to take the edge off capitaism - even Adam Smith wrote "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" that put the thinking of "Wealth of Nations" into a human context - the role is not to blunt it completely or give "choices" to the population that include choosing not to work.

I have been working with a very famous name in British engineering. They have some quality/productivity issues and I looked at the staff profiles to see what could be done to improve things. In one area, the vast majority of people will get a pay rise in April because of UK minimum wage rules. This highly profitable comany bleating about NI changes is relying on the State to make up the wages of their staff to a level where they can live. Thats you and me. We might as well simply send a cheque to the owners with our contribution to their lifestyle.

I see mo reason why the State should subsidise companies unless that is a policy decision to support people who need that support eg with disabilities

Every company that outsorces work to India is removing opportunity in the UK. I am pretty sure that the "starter" jobs I had and got promoted from are now offshore. The bottom rungs of the career paths have been sent to Inia and then we give the Indians work visa for UK as they have the experience. It is all so predictable.

"Uk is a poor village with a rich city called london"

I find this interesting in the context of HS2.

HS2 will make central Brum 45 minutes from central London, about the same, I would imagine, as a typical commute into London from the suburbs on the tube.

Central Brum is currently an enormous building site with tower blocks going up all over the place. These are almost all residential. 2 x 51 storey towers are nearing completion within easy walking distance of the Curzon St terminus of HS2. Quite why anyone of sound mind would choose to live in central Brum is another matter but relatively cheap accommodation 45 mins from work in Central London might be a driving factor? Perhaps, in some crazy way, central Brum is becoming a suburb of London.

We shall see.

OM (most definitely NOT a resident of Brum!)