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Rob B
Posted: 14 February 2025 19:38:37(UTC)
#393

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It's important to compare like for like. Quoting CGT in text but showing CG Absolute Return in a graphic doesn't show the full picture. For example, look closely at November 2023. CGT has a quick but significant drop, albeit it for only a moment. That isn't shown on the graph on the previous page.

In the long run it will make little difference. However, PNL appears to show a much smoother journey in recent times. Clearly, gold has helped. Whilst I believe it's theoretically possible to copy PNL's portfolio, I would not be quick enough off the mark to buy at exactly the right time or have the available time to do so.

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Newbie on 14/02/2025(UTC), Martina on 14/02/2025(UTC), Monty Claret on 15/02/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 14 February 2025 19:50:54(UTC)
#394

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Rob B;334441 wrote:
It's important to compare like for like. Quoting CGT in text but showing CG Absolute Return in a graphic doesn't show the full picture. For example, look closely at November 2023. CGT has a quick but significant drop, albeit it for only a moment. That isn't show on the graph on the previous page. In the long run it will make little difference. However, PNL appears to show a much smoother journey in recent times.


The problem with using CGT over this period is it shows two variables: the portfolio performance AND the fund going from a premium to a discount.

CGT's particular issues with discount control – and having a wider range for their discount control mechanism than PNL – is really a different discussion. If you're not willing to take the contrarian trade on IT discounts, then it makes more sense to use the unit trust.
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Guest on 14/02/2025(UTC)
tudor a davies
Posted: 14 February 2025 21:53:28(UTC)
#391

Joined: 19/02/2019(UTC)
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zone key;334433 wrote:
tudor a davies;334427 wrote:


Quite the opposite:

“ investment policy is to protect and increase (in that order) the value of shareholders’ funds per share”

It is explicitly wealth preservation.


You are selectively quoting. They say "The Trust’s policy is to protect and increase (in that
order) the value of shareholders’ funds per share over the long term."

...and that they have done. The benchmark is effectively RPI/CPI and they have performed very well against that benchmark over the long term. And "wealth preservation" is not how they label themselves.


So what is wealth preservation if it is not exceeding RPI/cpi. Doing so is the ONLY measure of wealth preservation.
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Jay P on 14/02/2025(UTC), AlanT on 16/02/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 15 February 2025 01:40:30(UTC)
#392

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tudor a davies;334460 wrote:
zone key;334433 wrote:
tudor a davies;334427 wrote:


Quite the opposite:

“ investment policy is to protect and increase (in that order) the value of shareholders’ funds per share”

It is explicitly wealth preservation.


You are selectively quoting. They say "The Trust’s policy is to protect and increase (in that
order) the value of shareholders’ funds per share over the long term."

...and that they have done. The benchmark is effectively RPI/CPI and they have performed very well against that benchmark over the long term. And "wealth preservation" is not how they label themselves.


So what is wealth preservation if it is not exceeding RPI/cpi. Doing so is the ONLY measure of wealth preservation.


Not into readin', eh?
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Aminatidi
Posted: 15 February 2025 18:05:30(UTC)
#395

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Does anyone know if PNL have one of those asset charts that shows the asset allocation change/development over time please?
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JayW
Posted: 16 February 2025 08:07:41(UTC)
#396

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There's a table on page 2 of their 2024 annual report showing asset allocation for several years. I guess if you go back through their reports you can add more years and make a graph. I guess this is something AI should be able to do in a few seconds these days.
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Aminatidi on 16/02/2025(UTC), Harry Trout on 16/02/2025(UTC), Isaac J on 16/02/2025(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 16 February 2025 09:02:34(UTC)
#398

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
JayW;334623 wrote:
There's a table on page 2 of their 2024 annual report showing asset allocation for several years. I guess if you go back through their reports you can add more years and make a graph. I guess this is something AI should be able to do in a few seconds these days.


Thanks 👍🏼

I've had a quick look and the main thing I was wanting to confirm is the equity allocation doesn't seem to have changed massively under the period it's been managed by Troy as more of a "preserver".

I've always thought of it as a rough 40/60 type allocation but didn't want to look at the historical and average returns and find I'd missed a few years when it was 80% equities.

Interestingly (or not 😂) from a quick look on Trustnet even for a cautious fund 2009 returns (when Troy took over and mid GFC) make one hell of a difference to returns.

From 2009 on the day Troy took over.



From 2010 missing the first year..
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Mr Bean on 16/02/2025(UTC)
Mostly Rational
Posted: 16 February 2025 09:47:36(UTC)
#397

Joined: 09/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 311
JayW;334623 wrote:
There's a table on page 2 of their 2024 annual report showing asset allocation for several years. I guess if you go back through their reports you can add more years and make a graph. I guess this is something AI should be able to do in a few seconds these days.


What it will actually do: produce a very professional looking graph, until you inspect it and discover that the data points are all invented and the labels are probably wrong too. The only lazy option is waiting for someone else to spend 20m tabulating the data from the reports.
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Aminatidi
Posted: 18 February 2025 19:19:56(UTC)
#399

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Worth a watch if you're interested in the trust.

https://youtu.be/7KtVjzKJFT4?si=dTn8o7oD9SHtXZr6
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Newbie on 18/02/2025(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 18 February 2025 21:04:24(UTC)
#400

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Aminatidi;334933 wrote:
Worth a watch if you're interested in the trust.

https://youtu.be/7KtVjzKJFT4?si=dTn8o7oD9SHtXZr6

Interesting and makes a lot of sense.
Funnily I was thinking about gold recently and and wondering if it is heading for a revaluation.
An awful lot of gold based vehicles is being traded and one has to wonder if, like in the past when the hard gold is called for, it can be presented. Unlike the past where traders where loaning each other gold to show that it was available (until it caught out), tensions may render this trick non viable.

The good news is that when it does get revalued, it is valued upwards and as such gold gets a boost up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIwXaeo03Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrlY-wATnBg

https://www.youtube.com/...bzFFZwYdpVw&index=3

I personally am seeing a 'higher premiums' and longer waiting time for physical gold (esp Britannia's) whereas I was in the past simply able to buy at most dealers instantly (I know my simple £5-10k coin transaction is irrelevant)
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Jay P on 18/02/2025(UTC), Guest on 19/02/2025(UTC)
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