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Is there a case for redistribution of wealth and income?
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 06 October 2010 17:13:48(UTC)
#1

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

A recent article on the London Stock Exchange website says:

Pensioners’ relative prosperity rises


Occupational pension schemes boost income for 4.6m OAPs



30 Sep - 13:29

Pensioners working after they have retired and occupational pensions have helped Britain's elderly become relatively more prosperous, latest figures from the government show.

A quarter of income for pensioner couples came from earnings, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). A further 35% came from the state pension and about 25% from occupational pensions.

It found an average couple in retirement earned just over £29,000 per year, or £564 a week, in 2008-09.

That income now means pensioner households make up 38% of the poorest fifth of all households in the UK, sharply down from 56% in 1977.

"Although retired households' income is lower than that of non-retired households, over the last three decades the position of retired households has improved," the ONS commented.

The figures, though, showed a wide divergence in income between pensioner groups. A fifth of them exist on incomes of just £197 a week, while the wealthiest 20% enjoy average weekly incomes of £755.

More than half of single pensioners also received total pension income of less than £10,000 a year.

http://www.londonstockex...ve-prosperity-rises.htm

http://www.statistics.go...p?term=pensioner+income

The Tories will doubtless say (to themselves) that poor people are improvident, lazy, stupid etcetera and deserve to starve. The non-sociopathic may believe that life's chances are unfairly distributed and it is the responsibility of a caring society to even out the results for people who are, for whatever reason, incapable of helping themselves.
Graham Barlow
Posted: 06 October 2010 19:29:25(UTC)
#2

Joined: 09/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 203

They are already taking over 50% of all earnings,and in addition are now confiscating a large proportion of savings on death. The consequences of this and further draconian attacks on City business has resulted this year of a further loss to the Exchequer of £500 million . This massive haemorrage will continue. The rubbish of redistribution causes the Get up and Go productive people to do just that. .Look no further than the old marxist Soviet Union, which turned the populace into a nation of Zombies.
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 07 October 2010 00:04:12(UTC)
#3

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

I know only two or three people who pay a marginal income tax rate of 40% i.e. have a taxable income of over £37,400. I don't think I know anyone with the £150,000 of taxable income to pay at the 50 per cent rate. Yes, National Insurance adds to the burden for almost everyone but those with incomes in six figures can certainly afford all the tax mitigation strategies such as investing in AIM stocks, Venture Capital Trusts, Enterprise Investment Schemes and so on. The 50 per cent rate is almost voluntary.

I have no objection to people minimising their taxation by investing in employment producing businesses. I do object to people who do nothing worthwhile with their wealth. Mathew 25:14-30 and Luke 19:12-28.


George Hill
Posted: 07 October 2010 10:24:27(UTC)
#4

Joined: 10/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29

Graham. "The Marxist Soviet Union... turned the populace into a nation of Zombies."

Been in Moscow recently? The old USSR is now run by thugs and gangsters and a handful of super rich crooks who did not come about their obscene wealth legally. Moscow - from one of the safest places some years back - is now a most dangerous city. And the peasants are STILL queueing. Now I'm NOT dreaming of a return to a twisted Marxist regime - just reminding you of how MUCH worse it's got. The worst thing that's happened to "civilisation" has been the fall of the wall. NOT the best thing, as some people seem to believe.
a benington
Posted: 07 October 2010 11:57:01(UTC)
#5

Joined: 05/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2

The ideological and self interested comments above are excellent examples of the real problem.

Lets be pragmatic about this. The problem with wide income and wealth differentials is that policy makers, their friends and families are part of the high income group. Hence they lack everyday experience of the barriers and costs faced by those in the lower income groups and end up relying on ideology, statistics and their self interest to make the policies that impact on the majority. The success of policy thus generated is a matter of luck not design.

High income multiple mortgages have caused such havoc across the banking sector and are an example of this distance. Another is the failure to address the reasons that washing manufacturers and other business' locate their operations in Germany, Holland, France and Italy rather than the UK. It's not easy to throw away the advantages of our geographic location as the large island off the coast of the largest economy in the world. Our Eastern and Southern coasts should be the world's richest manufacturing and trading site.

We have to do for the country and all our business' what we did for Financial Services when we de-regulated and put the London
Docklands outside of the planning system. Reducing the budget deficit is laudable but of little point if we fail to address the barriers and costs for business' and consumers created by national legislation. Put simply, we can't afford our planning system, our employment agency and employment business legislation, our solicitors regs, etc.

To give you a current example that will soon impact on the employment of those currently in financial services, govt is about to make redundant roughly half of our legal aid lawyers. These people are bright, motivated by a desire to win over a desire for higher pay, qualified to provide financial advice, experienced spin masters, quick on their feet, able to absorb and understand complexity. Yet not a single financial services business is advertising for staff in the Law Society Gazette. If I was Bob Diamond I'd sack the head of UK HR for not being on this one already.
dumberfsa
Posted: 07 October 2010 15:30:50(UTC)
#6

Joined: 29/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

If you were a bright lawyer, motivated by a desire to win over a desire for higher pay, why on earth would you be tempted to take Bob Diamond's shilling?
George Hill
Posted: 07 October 2010 16:25:31(UTC)
#7

Joined: 10/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29

There is much more to having a life than just stacking up money. Try LIVING in Switzerland - as we are led to believe "thousands" of city slicker screen jockeys are threatening to do. You could always count your dosh for amusement. If I were short of a million, I'd just smuggle dope from Columbia. It's a more honest, acceptable and respectable occupation than either most lawyers or city bankers. Jump ship if you like guys. I'll spend my money in this country for the greater good of the country that has looked after me well. And vice versa.
Graham Barlow
Posted: 07 October 2010 17:42:05(UTC)
#8

Joined: 09/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 203

The Govt are already taking over 50% of the GDP of the UK . It is not only income tax but NI VAT Fuel duty Capital gains Tax Capital transfer Tax. A hundred and one stealth taxes which are too numerous to mention here. Now they are talking a special Bank Tax9 Goodbye HSBC and Standard and Chartered, and to round off The Liberals would like a universal Death Tax. It will not belong before the IRS. has your salary first and issues what they think fit.
The Soviet Union as was, left me with the creeps having had to go there on business in the 70s. . The official car driver was beaten up by the police with me sitting in the back. I was always well armed with Scotch, which was a wonderful passport. The Hotel reserved for Foreign business people was besieged at times by women, looking for a passport and visa out. I had to deal with one man who happened to be a committed Christian. To leave Moscow by train to see his old mother in Sebastapol he had to get a visa to buy the ticket. . I see many things in Britain to-day that remind me of the omnipitent state.
John Kenyon
Posted: 09 October 2010 12:47:22(UTC)
#9

Joined: 15/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

Absolutely right Mr Barlow. Communism dehumanised people - ask those who lived and suffered under it. I experienced it in the 60's etc. The Nanny State - equality - deincentivising people is the way to degrade the nation. And it has done that. We have to operate within a world market, increase if we can the cake and take as best care as we can of those really in need. Whether Christian or not to aim for a 'Christian' capitalism is best way forward - where individual treated with respect.
Graham Barlow
Posted: 09 October 2010 20:26:49(UTC)
#10

Joined: 09/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 203

On this subject I have one final observation to offer. In my experience when I hear a Politician advocating REDISTRIBUTION OF INCOME, they usually turn out to be very adept of redistributing someone else's income to their own enrichment. Look no further than our own House of Commons (So ineptly named) It is full of very well heeled people, largely at the Tax payers expense. Redistribution is the Clarion call for votes from the Arch Hypocrites. Take a careful look at the Shadow Cabinet chosen by Red Ed. I think you will find we could all do with a bit of their own brand of redistribution.
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