Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

economic growth
huudi
Posted: 26 October 2010 08:18:08(UTC)
#1

Joined: 11/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 266

How is growth measured and why is it considered so desirable in view of the fact that it is only maintained by an ever increasing population?
Surely this is the ultimate bubble leading to the ultimate disaster.
PensionsManager
Posted: 26 October 2010 14:02:33(UTC)
#2

Joined: 20/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18

It is desirable bacause it means we are producing more which can be sold and help spread money around through greater tax receipts etc. The growth we are seeing is at present just making up for previous contraction and there is untapped capacity in the market still. Growth leads to higher employment and eventually a reduction in our overall deficit, or it should anyway.
Dennis .
Posted: 26 October 2010 15:10:57(UTC)
#3

Joined: 26/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,018

Huddi is absolutely correct. In the final analysis and on a finite planet with finite resources there is a limit to growth. We are already producing loads of stuff that we don't need (just look at the clothing market for a start). However there is a real need for employment to keep people busy and give people a sense of worth.
I suppose that this means that eventually we will all be doing none jobs - perhaps Gordon Brown was a couple of centuries ahead of his time!
huudi
Posted: 26 October 2010 15:24:20(UTC)
#4

Joined: 11/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 266

"RTFQ" as an instructor of mine would write on the board, it roughly translates as 'read the question'. In any event I know of few people who have been affected by the slump or the so-called recovery, to the majority it is all talk and meaningless numbers. Their lives have not changed in any way.
I maintain that the 'growth' we see is only proportional to an increasing population and therefore artificial. Deliberately everincreasing population in order to sell goods has led to overcrowding, poverty and crime, yet we believe growth(greed by any other name) is good.
This quest for growth has put us where we are today, longing for an uncrowding desert island and dreading the muggers knife, nothing good about that. The new government has made a token effort to reduce benifits and therefore immigration but this is still treasure island to all the wrong people.
huudi
Posted: 26 October 2010 15:50:02(UTC)
#5

Joined: 11/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 266

As Dennis said, a need for work, but as there are few jobs then a need for less people. In the book 'Downwave' history shows boom & bust throughout centuries, after the worst decline always comes war, this begins the growth cycle and decreases population. When this was written (1989?) this was imminent. Have we broken the cycle or what?
Mike
Posted: 26 October 2010 15:57:07(UTC)
#6

Joined: 06/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 14

Pensions Manager - what a myopic view of the world. You may be right in the narrow sense but in the wider view of the world huudi is clearly making sense.
In simple terms we need growth to make people more weathly. This is clearly desireable in a world where the availability of the resources consumed to make that wealth is not an issue. However that is no longer the case. That leaves the problem that we still need growth to raise the poorest out of very real and abject poverty. This will continue as long as there is such an uneven distribution of wealth, a growing world population and the continuing trend to equate material possession and consumption with human happiness.
One point of disagreement with huudi is that, overall, immigration brings economic benefit to the UK despite what the cheap tabloid headlines might lead us to think.
Anonymous Post
Posted: 26 October 2010 17:01:39(UTC)
#7
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

The honourable pensions manager, whom God preserve, seems to repeat untruths like a parrot and I wonder why.

Surely he knows that in the last 12 years at least, even with socialist-leaning government, growth has resulted in greater concentration of wealth, not less. What will happen under this bunch of multi- millionaires we can only wait with trepidation.
P Everton
Posted: 26 October 2010 17:04:19(UTC)
#8

Joined: 19/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 16

PensionsManager is surely incorrect - growth is an increase in the 'value' of economic activity, not just of volume, although the two usually go hand-in-hand.

I'm no economist, but I suspect the reason why growth is good is that its opposite will - in the long run - be the ruin of us all.
robert munro
Posted: 26 October 2010 17:23:52(UTC)
#9

Joined: 17/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 8

So how is growth measured? No answer to this?

I'd guess that it's the most important aspect of the matter.
Deborah Hyde (Citywire)
Posted: 26 October 2010 17:36:40(UTC)
#10

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36

Hi Huudi, Robert,

I'll be putting up a piece tomorrow that digs a little bit deeper into the how growth is measured question.

2 Pages12Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets