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RPI v CPI, but do we agree that there should be a measure for Rural Inflation
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Mike
Posted: 18 December 2010 12:24:58(UTC)
#11

Joined: 06/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 14
Only if it includes the cheaper cost of housing. I suspect an equivalent inner city mortgage would more than pay for oil heating costs
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D139
Posted: 18 December 2010 13:55:12(UTC)
#12

Joined: 26/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
Yes there does seem to be a cartel operating here. Someone in the middle is making a lot of money.
We last bought heating oil in October for 41p per litre. Now its 71p ( 73% increase ).

In the same time crude oil has roughly gone from $80 to $90 a barrel ( 11% increase plus maybe another 2 to 3% for exchange rate ).

I just hope its gone down again before we have to fill the tank again in Feb/ March.

No mains gas here. Heat pump install > £10K, plus increase size of all radiators in house, plus big electric bills. Not much choice really.
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Anonymous Post
Posted: 18 December 2010 14:54:42(UTC)
#13
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

The price rises of heating oil mentioned in the article are scandalous, we had looked at moving to Ireland to buy one of their (now) reasonable price houses located away out in the Tipperary countryside so relying on heating oil.

Some of the citywire readers use this idea already, but remember the price of oil rocketing up to $147 a barrel in July 2008 and then dropping to $33 approximately in early 2009, that was some decline. For the first time in my life I started buying an Oil unit trust (CF Junior Oils) and still do so on a monthly basis so averaging in on the cost of oil. I use Fibbonaci retracement levels in my trading on commodities and equities and was gambling on seeing crude oil rising to $106 a barrel

Doing this covers the cost of fuel I buy for our cars and will also pay our heating bills, it is an easy way to hedge against these crazy price rises
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oilbuying.co.uk
Posted: 18 December 2010 15:11:24(UTC)
#14

Joined: 18/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1
Cartel?
Profiteering...price fixing...monopoly trading...unethical additional levy to get early christmas delivery, an industry caught unprepared again...add your own and take your pick....just a little research will show you what you need to know and you can make your own mind up as to whether it really is just a case of supply and demand...

...there is a critical point being missed...many people will simply freeze in their own homes for Christmas...The debate right now must not be about price (the OFT can get to that in the next few weeks), nor should it be about who is to blame that about 1 in 15 UK homes are dependent on this fossil fuel - as "antiquated" as it may be - it MUST be about how lamentable the industry's response has been to actually getting to those that will freeze to death. Chris Huhne committed political SUICIDE on Thursday when he stated NOBODY WOULD BE WITHOUT HEATING OIL FOR CHRISTMAS. This is our Energy Secretary proving he has zero idea what this entails...

...it is only 10 months since serious snows cut off many villages - we took our own action and ensured NO ONE ran dry with an Emergency OIL delivery system. Every community can achieve this. They just need to get a little organised. Come on BIG SOCIETY let's forget what the suppliers say and what the Government is dreaming about...and let's do it. NOBODY should freeze because they were left forgotten by an industry that can not deliver the product it is designed to deliver at the time that its end users most need it.

I am Chris Pomfret and I run a unique community oil buying group for 2000 people (and rapidly growing) across 70 villages (and also rapidly growing)...come on and join in and let's take some direct action to save lives and embarrass an industry and our government into creating the huge changes required...

Keep warm

chris@oilbuying.co.uk

Someone sent me this rather splendid quote this week:

Each time a man stands up for an idea, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope and crossing each other from a million different centres of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resis...tance.
Robert Kennedy

I venture to ask - what happens when hundreds, or thousands, of Men and Women "stands up for an idea"
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John Howard Norfolk
Posted: 18 December 2010 19:03:29(UTC)
#15

Joined: 09/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
The wrong question is being asked.

Don't get sidetracked by some instances of shortages (and price manipulation?). What we are REALLY discussing here is how to measure inflation. And just now the biggest cock-up in measuring this concerns the make-up of the statistical basket.

OK, you can argue RPI versus CPI until the cows come home but actually the worry behind the headlines is how to measure inflation indexing for pensions.

There has been political spin and press conjecture recently on what is legally permitted, what is best for the nation's finances but no real guidance on what may be appropriate for pensioners. Lets have some thoughts on a brand new index which I want to call the "PPI" or "Pensioners Price Index". This would have no mortgage or school fee costs, but would be heavily weighted towards health care and home heating for example. The statisticians will have their own ideas on other tweaks to make this index relevant for indexing pension payments. May I float this idea past citywire subscribers to see if it is worth promoting?

This could really take off if leaders of public opinion can be persuaded to endorse the belief that a pensioner's shopping basket is different. If adopted by pension trustees and annuity providers it would solve the political problem of "RPI" versus "CPI".


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Anonymous Post
Posted: 19 December 2010 14:02:35(UTC)
#16
Anonymous 3 needed this 'Off the Record'

Where I live out in the wild west of Wales I wouldn't entertain oil because of the thieving bas-turds who think they have a right to empty the tank. There is a cartel of oil thieves in my area, never mind the providers. . If you lock up the filler valves they will simply cut a hole in the tank. The local police dont seem to care about catching the perpetrators At least they can't steal gas. I use 2 woodburners and calor gas as a back up. The wood is free off the beach and warms us when we collect it as well as when we burn it. and syphon out the oil.
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Peter Jason Taylor
Posted: 21 December 2010 01:13:02(UTC)
#17

Joined: 12/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 13
I don't believe there is a cartel of heating oil suppliers because there are enough of them to create competition.

But if you think there is, then beat them at their own game. Create a cartel of buyers, i.e. a few households who can combine orders and squeeze another penny a litre from them. The big players of this game, like Boilerjuice.com and (I suspect) oilbuying.co.uk pretend to do this, but take a cut that almost negates the discount. Get an experienced buyer on board to shop around and negotiate. On most occasions the choice will reduce to the same one or two competitive companies.

And don't believe the hype about condensing boilers. They don't pay for themselves, either financially or ecologically; they only last five years or so. My conventional one is 25 years old, 85% thermally efficient and never gives any trouble.
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B B
Posted: 21 December 2010 20:15:23(UTC)
#18

Joined: 16/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 67
Is there a cartel....I think so yes, but proving it is another matter.

Think "ground source heat pumps" check them out, "worcester bosch" they are not necessarily expensive and they could be run to feed groups of houses. It has been done in Scotland to a number of listed barns with great success.

The pipework can be laid in the ground "linksys" or placed in bore holes from which you could extract your water at the same time.
The pumps are designated 3.8 / 4.2 etc which means that for every kwatt of electricity used to run the pump you will get a return of 3.8 kwatt of heat and hot water, net return is 2.8kwatt. for a 3.8 pump.

As usual they are used in Sweden, Switz, Canada, Finland, Norway, Canada, US, etc similar to when they were using combi boilers and we were still putting water into loft tanks to freeze up, then transferring and heating 40 gallons to the airing cupboard water tank to use two gallons for a shower.

All houses built today should have underfloor heating, why? because for a start the heat requirement is 35 degrees as opposed to radiator requirement of 7o degrees...plus whichever corner of the room you stand in the heat is the same...no cold spots. Downside,....it takes a few hours to warm up but can be improved with better underfloor insulation.

Will it become norm? only when government legislation insists and radiator manufacturers have bought up all underfloor heating competition.

Forgive me.... but age makes me cynical as it will you.

Merry Christmas to one and all.
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John Page
Posted: 22 December 2010 07:53:31(UTC)
#19

Joined: 22/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2
And for the avoidance of doubt, if heat pumps produce four times as much heat as they consume in electrical energy, why should we feel good about having a boiler with only 85% efficiency? I can't get my mind around a boiler that "reliably" consumes oil and "reliably" only gives you part of the heat back!

Whether there is a cartel or not, misses another vital point... if you heat your house with hydro-cardons that increasing come from 2 miles down, in the middle of an ocean and where you have a periodic $40Bn+ clean up bill, shouldn't we be thinking about a different way - Polar Bears or no Polar Bears

Also, just so I am not confused (because apparently I'm an Arts Graduate, which I am not, and Mr Anonymous believes in broad-based criticism), the members of these cartels are currently sat in a very large number of pension plan investment strategies where last week, we were all anxious about getting better performance from. Little wonder, the drive towards a low-carbon economy will take a bit of time, because the cartels vested interest is actually us!
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