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Money v Making Stuff-Should Britain bid farewell to the golden egg of banking.
Anonymous Post
Posted: 26 June 2011 08:57:49(UTC)
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

Still on Life Support
I am afraid that I d not agree with you either.
The Three M's are minnows, form which one cannot extrapalate to large world class economies like the UK, and bigger still like the USA. The sample size is too small..
Old Soviet economies have their own specific problems which do not again apply to other economies like the UK, and other developed economies. No correlation there.
As a general rule economies that approach 80% Services, e.g. USA find themselves in trouble, and incur a big debt problem. The only reason their debt problem is tolerated is that they are the home of Debt Agencies, their size, and because it would not be in the long term interests of China to upset the apple cart by selling their huge holdings of USA debt.

Prof Eman
Anonymous Post
Posted: 26 June 2011 14:36:06(UTC)
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

Dear all
just a quickie, before my friend takes me to the airport, will be away for a few days.
To add to my last summary, some comments that have been made.
-Services too much, industry too little.
-#75
-#94 Engineertony. Perhaps skills training in miracles would be appropriate
#101 the GDP race
#103 ICD The trouble lies with the balance..but then we never get the balance right.
#107 Engineertony. It is not possible to circulate money by passing it from one service to another, with each taking a cut.
ICD We can't function as a society of just middlemen.
#111 Jeremy Bosk While banks are necessary, the magnitude of their excesses is foolish.
Dr Jimbo The service economy in all its forms, at its current level, is unaffordable. Eventually the model fails and we have anarchy.
Overall, we have not got the right balance between services (too much) and industry (too little).
Please participate in the 10 S/T and 10 L/T priorities at #139.

Back shortly
Have a nice week

Prof Eman
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 26 June 2011 17:31:21(UTC)

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

To give a taste of the enormous amount of academic effort that goes into labour market research here is a relatively accessible paper. There are links between getting a top job and academic qualifications combined with on the job training and the benefits (or not) of moving between firms.

It is worth a read for anyone with recent gradates in the family.

Anders Frederiksen, Takao Kato:

Human Capital and Career Success: Evidence from Linked Employer-Employee Data

Abstract:
Denmark's registry data provide accurate and complete career history data along with detailed personal characteristics (e.g., education, gender, work experience, tenure and others) for the population of Danish workers longitudinally. By using such data from 1992 to 2002, we provide rigorous evidence for the first time for the population of workers in an entire economy (as opposed to case study evidence) on the effects of the nature and scope of human capital on career success (measured by appointments to top management). First, we confirm the beneficial effect of acquiring general human capital formally through schooling for career success, as well as the gender gap in career success rates. Second, broadening the scope of human capital by experiencing various occupations (becoming a generalist) is found to be advantageous for career success. Third, initial human capital earned through formal schooling and subsequent human capital obtained informally on the job are found to be complements in the production of career success. Fourth, though there is a large body of the literature on the relationship between firm-specific human capital and wages, the relative value of firm-specific human capital has been rarely studied in the context of career success. We find that it is more beneficial to broaden the breadth of human capital within the firm than without, pointing to the significance of firm-specific human capital for career success.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp5764.pdf
engineertony
Posted: 26 June 2011 23:27:34(UTC)

Joined: 24/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 71

As an engineer I struggle to keep up with the academics on this thread...one question please...

Some years ago I helped to install a big machine at a firm down south, making banknote paper with the silver line and the watermarks, Portals at Basingstoke. Had a great time with the locals, big success, the machine was chopping up cotton bales and this cotton is used as pulp for hard wearing banknote paper.
The paper leaves Portals for the Royal Mint which I assume produces our pound notes, made me think it's all a big con trick..

Here's the question..
There's pallets with stacks of pound notes leaving the Royal Mint, nominally "worth" millions of pounds.
Where does it go? Does it go to various banks and if so how do they pay for it?
How does it get into circulation? Is the BoE involved?
What happens if Fred Goodwin and his croneys slip a few wads into their pension funds, does anyone know?

Anonymous 1
Nice summary at #139

Jeremy
Trams at #136. I've seen them in Manchester, couldn't see the point, what was the target, what did they achieve.
My point was the lack of competence & expertise in Edinburgh because they've spent 75% of the money and only built 28%, the track wasn't laid right and had to come up. Our forefathers with picks and shovels installed miles of tram track in the 19th century which lasted until the 1950s. In Edinburgh they gave a contract to lay track, not exactly rocket science, to a German consortium.

I wrote a series of articles a few years ago showing what the lack of engineering knowledge was and is costing the country, I gave all the references and details and it comes to hundreds of billions of pounds lost. None of our national newspapers showed any interest, mainly because their staff are all humanities graduates, they couldn't understand what I was talking about. One editor remarked that people are not interested in Science and Engineering.

Prof
enjoy the break!
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 27 June 2011 00:32:24(UTC)

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

engineertony

http://www.bankofengland...nknotes/about/index.htm

Did you try to place your article with the Financial Times? They have a lot of articles on infrastructure, PFI and such. I don't know if they employ any qualified engineers but they are bright. Secondly, have you tried to interest your MP in the subject? If he is not directly interested, you can ask him to put you in touch with various Select Committees and you can ask him to place your research in the House of Commons Library (not sure about the Lords). MPs who want information that their own researchers cannot provide often ask the librarians to compile research for them. Some of the librarians have scientific training.

http://www.parliament.uk...search/briefing-papers/

http://www.parliament.uk...volved/contact-your-mp/

http://www.parliament.uk...nvolved/contact-a-lord/

http://www.parliament.uk...ords/about-lords/lords/

Some of the Lords have scientific or engineering training e.g. Lord Winston in embryology and television science programmes. Baroness Greenfield is another. Some of them can get television producers interested.

http://www.publications....o/ld16sctk/ld16sctk.htm

Have a look at this site:
http://sciencecampaign.org.uk/?p=840

You might like to contact this chap who is a science writer with a geology degree and a lot of contacts.
http://www2.lse.ac.uk/Gr...sWho/Staff/BobWard.aspx

engineertony
Posted: 27 June 2011 13:26:19(UTC)

Joined: 24/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 71

Jeremy,

Thanks, hope there's a niche for me somewhere.
As I said at #22 there are few in the media or parliament with enough knowledge to grasp the subject matter,
and few editors who find it of interest.
As I call up hotmail, I go to msn with all it's supposed news headlines, celebrity gossip, and latest scandals,
if there's a link to technology or science it only covers the latest igadget, smartphone or 3D TV. Science, Engineering & Technology have been marginalised by the media.
When I was teenage we bought Practical Wireless magazine with lots of ideas for radio & amplifier circuits. Along the magazine shelf were magazines like Popular Mechanics, Do-it-Yourself & Practical Householder. Motor Cycle and Motor magazines covered subjects like changing brake pads or clutch plates. No health and safety as plans for a home built spin dryer were published.
Now there are kids who can't adjust the brakes on their bikes, and adults who can't change a spare wheel.
Editors may be correct, there's no interest in these subjects.
As I said above the task of turning around years of decline is not within the capabilities of the leaders we have,
it needs a miracle.

I'll let you know the responses to your links.....
Still on life support
Posted: 27 June 2011 13:57:08(UTC)

Joined: 27/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 52

Afternoon, think this will be my last post here as it has taken up quite a lot of time, and regardless of the evidence presented to the contrary, it seems that I in a minority of 1 in my belief that the UK problems do not all stem from having a significant banking sector and wider service sector.

I will leave with a few key points;

The UK is in fact the world’s sixth largest manufacturer and 6th in the league table of GDP therefore we are certainly punching our weight in terms of manufacturing .

The size of the manufacturing sector as a proportion of the overall economy is often quoted and its clear that yes it has fallen. Depending on your measures, back in the 1970’s manufacturing made up approximately 22% of the economy and had fallen to around 9%; it now stands at somewhere near 12%. Worth considering our neighbours though, France’s equivalent percentages reveal a not dissimilar reduction from 17% to 13%.
Really interesting is Germany, the internationally lauded centre of European manufacturing and example for us all of balanced economy. Here the figures reduced from 35% to 21%, which is a greater percentage drop than the UK. As prof said, when 80% non-manufacturing is reached, it causes a problem so watch this space for German news

Japan meanwhile is 2nd or third on the size league table, is the third largest manufacturer in the world as yet has experienced little or no growth for 20 years. Contrast that the US who have the largest service sector in the world and who has experienced consistently positive GDP growth every year from 1991 to 2008 and has been ahead of Germany for all but 4 of those years. The UK meanwhile has largely tracked the US. Admittedly China has been ahead, but considering the low base that they have come from, much of that growth can be explained by improvements in efficiency.

Finally, I have undertaken a little backgorund reading and have concluded the following. There have been a number of theories on the causes of economic growth including classical (Adam Smith & friends), Neo-classical (Solow, Swan), Endogenous Growth, Unified Growth, Big Push, Schumpeter, Friedman and of course Keynes, and so far, other than a few lines from Adam Smith, which was then discredited by David Ricardo, I can find no model, case study or theory that places great emphasis on the proporation of services to manufacturing in an economy as a driver of GDP growth. There are a multitude of other influences quoted including public sector debt, private sector debt (levels and availability), free exchange rates, value and stock of commodities, wage inflation, employment level, absolute level of wealth (eg the higher is get, the more slowly it grows), production efficiency and productivity per head, free movement of capital and of labour, and technological advances.

Prof Eman, Im afraid that I am more inclined to believe this point of view over yours at this point, although in the spirit of balance, I will of course re-evaluate that position should you choose to publish you previous theory and it withstands the rigorous academic test that would then ensue.

Over and out


Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 27 June 2011 14:45:11(UTC)

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

Still on life support

Thanks for the summary of the pro-services argument. And thanks for all your good humoured and pertinent comments.

I actually agree with you but want to have my cake and eat it. I think there is a lot more to be achieved by science and engineering with manufacturing as the concomitant. Fusion power, long distance manned space exploration, weather control, cures for genetic diseases are just a few.

I suppose it boils down to a matter of taste. Leaflets advertising one of the hundreds of local hairdressers and the zillion pizza parlours have just dropped on my door mat. They provide employment (not least to the tribe of leaflet distributors) and make some consumers happy but life would go on without them. There is a sound like a pile driver coming through the party wall from a local radio station via the sound system of the sub-simian student who fondly believes it is music. 99.9 per cent of broadcast media is a service too far.

Add good sound-proofing to the science and engineering research budget. I actually use a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones bought to counter the radio at my last employer. Pop / rock music is very difficult to block.

Scientific discovery and engineering feats like the Thames Barrier, the Shinkansen and even our antiquated canals stir the imagination in ways fast food does not. Of course there are services that do stir our senses and our imaginations - great art, archaeology, historical research, literature. Add aesthetics to moral philosophy on the curriculum.
engineertony
Posted: 28 June 2011 17:57:42(UTC)

Joined: 24/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 71

Racketeering in insurance.
Jack Straw is taking steps to curb the racketeering in the insuarnce business. Quoted on radio 4 today, only 24% of what we pay in goes on repairs, and the repairs are inflated when the favoured garage knows it's an "insurance job". Payments are being syphoned off in all directions, agents and bent lawyers looking for accident claims, even the police have been getting a bit for reporting on likely accidents, and some other kind of intermediaries which I didn't quite grasp. Add in the fat cats in the actual insurance companies, plush offices everywhere and their "shareholders" and it all smells pretty foul.
Bottom line is that we motorists could be paying 5 times more than we need, around 80% of what we pay is circulating services, making nothing, getting a good living.
I backed into a Discovery on my drive, we had visitors staying with us, dented the back plastic bumper, needed replacing. If that same plastic was shaped as a chair in B&Q it would be £10, but because it's shaped as a back bumper and bought from a Land Rover agent it's £200. So when we add in the inflated spare parts we are really being screwed, more and more people living without making any real contribution to either goods or services.
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 28 June 2011 22:23:16(UTC)

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,316

engineertony

That particular example is down to the motor car manufacturers. They deliberately add non-functional design elements (e.g.convoluted shapes) so they can get copyright and patent protection. This stops the generic manufacturers in the after market from offering something just as good at half the price.

It is not just car makers. I was in a desperate hurry for a scanner to copy my passport for the regulatory red tape of opening a new brokerage account. So I bought an all in one scanner / printer / photocopier made by Lexmark. I have spent a dozen times the original purchase price on proprietary ink cartridges. I will buy a separate scanner one day or at least another brand of all-in-one after taking my time to read the reviews. Meanwhile I tell all and sundry my low opinion of Lexmark. I suggest you do the same with Land Rover. If we stop falling for the filthy tricks of the manufacturers and nag our MPs to bring the insurance racketeers to heel we may get somewhere.

The whole intellectual property business is a monster out of control that does no good for consumers or for manufacturers who face constant nuisance law suits. Copyright on books now extends to seventy years after the death of the author so the publishers can make a fair profit. Pah! Why do people pirate DVDs and music? They hate being ripped off is why. NB for the scummy lawyers out there: I do not pirate anything. I just refuse to buy your overpriced goods.
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