You're all bonkers !. I have never read such a long thread or so much dribble (so I didnt bother to read it all....lifes too short!!). Even by GOM standards your being hugely depressing. You seem to be locked into some time-warp 'Little England rules the waves' land. Guys, its 2011 and the world went global while you were having your afternoon nap.

Once upon a time British banks invested in British companies because Dover was as far as the bankers could see. Now they invest in anything anywhere that makes a buck and they were positively encouraged to do so by successive HMG's to provide the dosh for an occassional war in some God forsaken sand pit (keeps 'our boys' busy, what what). When it all went nasty, HMG tried to deflect the well deserved criticism by shouting 'OH you naughty rich bankers!', when in fact it should have been us saying 'You incompetant B'stards....you had a duty of care and were caught napping or focussing on your expenses!'. They advocated a regulatory soft touch and quite understandably the bankers went whoopie....play time boys! Profit has always been the banks' game; money is their product. So its hardly suprising they went looking for some in the USA sub prime market taking a nice little earner from a game of pass the toxic parcel. They were on bonus' werent they?.

As for this 'lack of education' lark...... bull**** ! The whole idea of sending the masses to uni wasnt designed to educate them (we only need just so many Chairmen of ICI and too many scientists spoil the experiment): it was to massage down the Tabloids rantings about the unacceptable number of young unemployed.Thinks: If they were in fulltime education they wont count.... Nor would they draw dole ...it was a win win. Now we are so skint we are charging them for the 'privalege' of making enough money to pay our pensions ! Tell me, how many of you guys paid for your original degrees? And while you doubtless think its only right that they should repay the loan from their 'massive' future wages (ha ha), how many of you have volunteered to pay back the cost of your own education. Well its only fair isnt it ?

Can you not see that what holds this country back is mental depression caused by a lack of the opportunity to earn enough money to buy a hugely cost inflated home (that you guys all profit from) while paying back the student loan, and affording to get married, have children, pay for child care so you can both work to earn enough to pay the mortgage and eat (OMG child care is SOOO expensive and no tax allowance: thats a killer), + put some aside for a pension so that they wont in turn have to become a burden on their kids, making the next generations problems even worse. We are setting their bar too high just to achieve some short term political gain and meet your pension/health bills. Its unsustainable. No wonder there was a near revolution a few weeks ago. Just thugs? I m not so sure. Dont imagine we are so very different from Egypt/Syria/ETC. The writing may well be on the wall unless we act.

OMG, you talk about a lack of education and then say that despite having worked on computers you cant even cut and paste a reply: And you guys were lecturers !!!!! Its a comedy. Talk about 'those that can and those that cant, teach.

There are some dead simple, affordable answers: Halve the number of uni students so that we have some young people left to become decent plumbers and bricklayers (or are we going to import those too.....oh I forgot, the Poles have arrived). Meanwhile, the teachers can more precisely focus on the elite students who will have the space and resources to excell and pull this country up by the boot straps. Encourage (in fact demand) that the banks invest in UK enterprise. Some of it may turn out to be sub prime, but intelligent failure is often the launch pad for eventual stunning success.

BUILD TONS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. That will keep the bricklayers employed and housed. Has no one noticed when flying over UK (even London) that theres acres and acres and acres of land occassionally broken up by little clumps of houses all crushed together like Butlins chalets. Millions of houses can EASILY be made affordable......let HMG/the banks own the land (useless farm land is cheap) charge a small monthly ground rent and sell just the bricks and mortar taking a reasonable deposit. If they still default, repossess the house, sell it and deduct any losses from the deposit. Minus the land cost, a home can easily be built for £75k en mass .....Now thats affordable even at 10% interest pa. In fact it costs hugely more than that interest amount to house people in council flats. Look at the savings for all....look at the security value of the land....look at the savings on otherwise subsidised council rent .....look at the contentment and stability it would bring. Sacrice a few, otherwise near valueless fields and its done. And youll have the 'uneducated' workforce to do it and they will all be paying their taxes. Stop all this whinging and put a rocket up this countrys economy: it could boom. AND ITS VERY AFFORDABLE.

Alan
ps Im a white Anglo Saxon 62 year old one time systems analyst, now much happier as a plumber, with 4 depressed kids and I fear for their future (and my pension) in this politically God forsaken country.

Anonymous 3

The sane alternative is counter-cyclical investment in things that will be of lasting benefit. Education, health education / prevention of lifestyle diseases, scientific and engineering r&d to ensure we make things and provide services that are better quality and better value for money, modernise our infrastructure... We pay for it by borrowing, by quantitative easing, by whatever means necessary in the short term. It will pay for itself in the longer term. Improved productivity reduces inflation and increases wealth.

The Chinese have no desire to see us too poor to buy the things they make. So there will be international co-operation however reluctant the aforementioned Luddites and Xenophobes are to admit it.

Jeremy,

you wrote:

'The Chinese have no desire to see us too poor to buy the things they make. So there will be international co-operation however reluctant the aforementioned Luddites and Xenophobes are to admit it.'

My point is that the Chinese will end up buying things we make because our labour will become cheaper as their labout becomes more expensive.

jeff

I agree. We have no problem that is impossible to solve.

We'll evolve our technology so that we won't have to rely on 'hoodies' to wipe our bums and look after us in our dotage.

'Better' is probably subjective; it's hard to pat a robot on the head (or whatever equivalent mechanical bit) with the same affection as a human slave!

I believe we'll end up being issued with 'credits' as good citizens - provided you have enough credits you'll be allowed to live but if not you'll end up in the recycling bin as 'fossil fuel'.

I shall endevour to ensure I have enough 'credits'/'brownie points'/'filthy lucre' to ensure survival until I make the personal choice to throw myself into the recycling furnace!

Prof

Think Moylando was probably referring to the HDI (Human Development Index) which is a measure of the wellbeing of countries populations taking into account GDP per head, mortality/longevity, health etc. UK wass ranked 26th in 2010 and the rating score is improving although ranking has slipped since 2007. There are only 4 more populous countries ahead of UK, (US, Germany, Japan and France) and vast swatches of the world population are ranked significantly below e.g. China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, Brazil etc. The world has 7bn people give or take, and we are ranked behind approx £680m, so saying we are ahead of 95% was a little optimistic. 90% would be more accurate, although still not a bad position.

If our future rank is your worry, you can rest assured that most of the countries ranked just below us are pretty sparsely populated (e.g. Andorra, Malta etc) and so it should be a while before we slip too far down the table, especially as Greece, Italy, Ireland and Spain are ahead of us and they are falling more quickly.

Hope that helps to clarify

Nice piece on the causes of recession that may be of interest

http://www.fundweb.co.uk...hinking/1037746.article