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Bitcoin up $30k in a month...
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Tim D
Posted: 24 October 2023 09:40:39(UTC)
#959

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
Neminem Laedit;283555 wrote:
DYOR...


Always amuses me when coiners use that phrase. For normal people with any experience of investing, I'm pretty sure it's become synonymous with "I'm here to shill you my pump-and-dump scheme".

Can't decide whether coiners are so far down the rabbit hole they're unaware what a red flag it is in the real world, whether they're using it ironically for a laugh, or whether it's like the "hello friend I'm from Nigeria" intros on spam email designed to quickly filter out anyone with an actual clue.
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Neminem Laedit
Posted: 24 October 2023 09:54:29(UTC)
#962

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,471
Joe P;283582 wrote:
My thoughts on BTC as "digital money"...

To my (simple) mind, "money" has 3 functions:
1. a medium of exchange
2. a store of value (specifically non-volatile, hence we dislike heavy inflation/deflation)
3. a unit of account ("a standard measure")

As I see it, BTC fulfils none of the above in a proper way:
1. It is not easy to go and buy a pint of beer with BTC, or a week's shopping, or a car. It's a poor medium of exchange (and there are technical limitations in it's framework). However I have done all of the above painlessly with a VISA card based on GBP.
2. BTC might well go up 100% in a year, but it can also fall 50% in the same period. It's nice if you buy some and it rises, but that doesn't make it a good store of value. Trust me, if you have £1m in GBP, and I tell you to flip a coin, heads I double it, tails I take £500K, you will not play this game.
3. BTC may be a leading digital ccy right now, but there are others (with varying arguments as to their respective use-cases), and CBDCs are also on the way. However, fundamentally, I know no-one who thinks of BTC as a standard 'unit of account'.

As I see it, BTC is a speculative, volatile, deflationary, digital, asset. The deflationary side of it sounds nice, but there are strong economic arguments against a non-inflationary money supply. BTC's worth is highly debatable (and it's price movements controlled mostly by "whales"). It is mostly traded on crypto exchanges in which I have zero trust. My banks will not let me move real money in/out of said exchanges. Thus it is largely useless to me.

If you want to trade a speculative digital asset, where it's difficult to cash in gains, that's fine. Just don't pretend it's going to be the next global reserve ccy. Thank you for attending my TED talk.


The world's third-largest asset manager explains...

https://www.fidelitydigi...bitcoin-first-revisited
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Joe P
Posted: 24 October 2023 12:53:02(UTC)
#963

Joined: 04/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 70

Thanks: 239 times
Was thanked: 187 time(s) in 54 post(s)
Neminem Laedit;283599 wrote:
The world's third-largest asset manager explains...

https://www.fidelitydigi...bitcoin-first-revisited


No - they do not. This is not Fidelity's view - it is a single paper published by two members of the research team at Fidelity Digital Assets. In other words, a division of Fidelity that makes commission on crypto, has paid two of it's research staff to write a paper highlighting the benefits of crypto.

Here's another (albeit older) paper by the Brooking Institute (a non-profit organization whose mission is to conduct in-depth, nonpartisan research): https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-brutal-truth-about-bitcoin
TL;DR: Bitcoin has failed in its stated objectives, it has become a speculative investment...

So, for every useless article you post, I can find an article saying the opposite.

Let me be clear, I don't care what happens with BTC, or any other crypto. I have no interest in excessively volatile speculative assets that I can't use. But this is an investment forum, where people try to exchange ideas and useful information. Your reply to my post did not address any of my points, and offered no useful information. I think we're done here.
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2 users thanked Joe P for this post.
Tim D on 24/10/2023(UTC), Peter61 on 24/10/2023(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 24 October 2023 18:32:41(UTC)
#965

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,351
I think Neminem's just a very tiny part of a system that spreads positive news about crypto all across forums & social media – either just to get more people on board, or as a timed strategy.. They may be Indian freelancers paid by crypto traders or online brokers.. Hedge fund guys like Dan Loeb actually made money doing similar things with stocks.

However, I think in an increasingly digitised world – in which algorithms are running the planet – the ability to transfer value between individuals, or individuals to algorithms, or algorithm to algorithm (e.g. if I build something that uses a technology from one entity, cloud processing from another, and takes instant payments from customers), it takes a lot of complexity, technology, regulatory, currency and fees out of the equation.

I think it would be crazy betting against digital money – and if you run a business using Stripe or Paypal, you might understand the necessity. History tells us the protocol we wind up using probably hasn't been invented yet. Or maybe it will be an evolution of an existing infrastructure. Don't listen to anyone who thinks they know – they're probably a node in some black hat propaganda network, so you might as well argue with a pop-up; it doesn't care.
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Neminem Laedit
Posted: 24 October 2023 20:45:18(UTC)
#966

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,471
ben ski;283690 wrote:
I think Neminem's just a very tiny part of a system that spreads positive news about crypto all across forums & social media – either just to get more people on board, or as a timed strategy.. They may be Indian freelancers paid by crypto traders or online brokers.. Hedge fund guys like Dan Loeb actually made money doing similar things with stocks.
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Strangways
Posted: 24 October 2023 21:23:29(UTC)
#921

Joined: 23/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 565
Strangways;275134 wrote:
Strangways;274483 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274480 wrote:
TJL;274477 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274472 wrote:
TJL;274470 wrote:

Why does it have to be such a polarising issue?


Because many...

i) don't have the brains to understand it, or even try to.
ii) don't have the balls to take even a small risk
iii) hate with a vengeance those who do possess i) and ii)

Quite simple, really...


Your diplomacy skills are even worse than mine - and that's saying something.
Don't ever contemplate a career as a salesman (person).
Meanwhile, I will continue to keep an open mind about crypto currencies.
I don't know why anyone would do otherwise.




I'll take that as agreement with my coruscating insight, which is actually mere common-or-garden.

Why does bitcoin drive no-coiners to near-apoplexy?

Even more so when all their "arguments" against are shown to be untrue, ill-founded, or patently ridiculous. Year-in and year-out, ad infinitum...

I don't invest in gold, classic cars, whisky or paintings...

But I would not dream of taking to the keyboard (without fail it appears for some strange people) to try and abuse, intimidate and insult those who wish to. (all the while revealing my gross ignorance of the subject).

Because bitcoin is a fraud and in 46 pages or this thread you haven’t identified a single thing you can do with it.

Another opportunity for you to tell us what we can actually do with Bitcoin, and you haven’t taken it. Surprise surprise.


Still waiting…
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Neminem Laedit
Posted: 24 October 2023 22:12:42(UTC)
#922

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,471
Strangways;283701 wrote:
Strangways;275134 wrote:
Strangways;274483 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274480 wrote:
TJL;274477 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274472 wrote:
TJL;274470 wrote:

Why does it have to be such a polarising issue?


Because many...

i) don't have the brains to understand it, or even try to.
ii) don't have the balls to take even a small risk
iii) hate with a vengeance those who do possess i) and ii)

Quite simple, really...


Your diplomacy skills are even worse than mine - and that's saying something.
Don't ever contemplate a career as a salesman (person).
Meanwhile, I will continue to keep an open mind about crypto currencies.
I don't know why anyone would do otherwise.




I'll take that as agreement with my coruscating insight, which is actually mere common-or-garden.

Why does bitcoin drive no-coiners to near-apoplexy?

Even more so when all their "arguments" against are shown to be untrue, ill-founded, or patently ridiculous. Year-in and year-out, ad infinitum...

I don't invest in gold, classic cars, whisky or paintings...

But I would not dream of taking to the keyboard (without fail it appears for some strange people) to try and abuse, intimidate and insult those who wish to. (all the while revealing my gross ignorance of the subject).

Because bitcoin is a fraud and in 46 pages or this thread you haven’t identified a single thing you can do with it.

Another opportunity for you to tell us what we can actually do with Bitcoin, and you haven’t taken it. Surprise surprise.


Still waiting…


You will indeed wait forever, until you educate yourself.

Understand Bitcoin
Understand Gold
Understand Fiat

Your task, not mine...
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Strangways
Posted: 26 October 2023 22:23:30(UTC)
#923

Joined: 23/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 565
Neminem Laedit;283703 wrote:
Strangways;283701 wrote:
Strangways;275134 wrote:
Strangways;274483 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274480 wrote:
TJL;274477 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274472 wrote:
TJL;274470 wrote:

Why does it have to be such a polarising issue?


Because many...

i) don't have the brains to understand it, or even try to.
ii) don't have the balls to take even a small risk
iii) hate with a vengeance those who do possess i) and ii)

Quite simple, really...


Your diplomacy skills are even worse than mine - and that's saying something.
Don't ever contemplate a career as a salesman (person).
Meanwhile, I will continue to keep an open mind about crypto currencies.
I don't know why anyone would do otherwise.




I'll take that as agreement with my coruscating insight, which is actually mere common-or-garden.

Why does bitcoin drive no-coiners to near-apoplexy?

Even more so when all their "arguments" against are shown to be untrue, ill-founded, or patently ridiculous. Year-in and year-out, ad infinitum...

I don't invest in gold, classic cars, whisky or paintings...

But I would not dream of taking to the keyboard (without fail it appears for some strange people) to try and abuse, intimidate and insult those who wish to. (all the while revealing my gross ignorance of the subject).

Because bitcoin is a fraud and in 46 pages or this thread you haven’t identified a single thing you can do with it.

Another opportunity for you to tell us what we can actually do with Bitcoin, and you haven’t taken it. Surprise surprise.


Still waiting…


You will indeed wait forever, until you educate yourself.

Understand Bitcoin
Understand Gold
Understand Fiat

Your task, not mine...


Still waiting… you don’t have an answer do you?
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Tim D
Posted: 26 October 2023 22:55:20(UTC)
#967

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
Understand Bernie Madoff
Understand the Beanie Baby Bubble
Understand Charles Ponzi
Understand Railway Mania
Understand The South Sea Bubble
Understand The Mississippi Scheme
Understand Tulip Mania

...and you'll understand Bitcoin and the rest of the crypto world perfectly.
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4 users thanked Tim D for this post.
SF100 on 26/10/2023(UTC), Peter61 on 27/10/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 27/10/2023(UTC), Tony Jewell on 28/10/2023(UTC)
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 26 October 2023 23:42:14(UTC)
#924

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,471
Strangways;283965 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;283703 wrote:
Strangways;283701 wrote:
Strangways;275134 wrote:
Strangways;274483 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274480 wrote:
TJL;274477 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;274472 wrote:
TJL;274470 wrote:

Why does it have to be such a polarising issue?


Because many...

i) don't have the brains to understand it, or even try to.
ii) don't have the balls to take even a small risk
iii) hate with a vengeance those who do possess i) and ii)

Quite simple, really...


Your diplomacy skills are even worse than mine - and that's saying something.
Don't ever contemplate a career as a salesman (person).
Meanwhile, I will continue to keep an open mind about crypto currencies.
I don't know why anyone would do otherwise.




I'll take that as agreement with my coruscating insight, which is actually mere common-or-garden.

Why does bitcoin drive no-coiners to near-apoplexy?

Even more so when all their "arguments" against are shown to be untrue, ill-founded, or patently ridiculous. Year-in and year-out, ad infinitum...

I don't invest in gold, classic cars, whisky or paintings...

But I would not dream of taking to the keyboard (without fail it appears for some strange people) to try and abuse, intimidate and insult those who wish to. (all the while revealing my gross ignorance of the subject).

Because bitcoin is a fraud and in 46 pages or this thread you haven’t identified a single thing you can do with it.

Another opportunity for you to tell us what we can actually do with Bitcoin, and you haven’t taken it. Surprise surprise.


Still waiting…


You will indeed wait forever, until you educate yourself.

Understand Bitcoin
Understand Gold
Understand Fiat

Your task, not mine...


Still waiting… you don’t have an answer do you?


I've given you the answer above.

I'm too busy enjoying my present and future gains to tutor the pathologically obtuse...
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