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water meters good or bad,plus up to date comments regarding water.
Daniel L
Posted: 28 August 2013 15:49:26(UTC)
#72

Joined: 12/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 25

Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
I'd consider a company move then because that is way too much. We've only ever had meter, but once and the meter has always seemed incredibly cheaper...and we are pretty bad with using too much water. My partner likes two baths a day, and we need to work on the amount we use while cleaning up. Best of luck to you though, you could be spending that 800 quid on things you actually want.
1 user thanked Daniel L for this post.
BOB 2 on 28/08/2013(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 30 August 2013 22:19:28(UTC)
#73

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

? is there any water company's that are not owned by foreign multinationals .

In 2012 China's sovereign wealth fund bought 8.68 per cent of Kemble Water, a move hailed by Chancellor George Osborne as "a vote of confidence in Britain as a place to invest and do business".

Other foreign-owned water companies in England include Southern Water, whose parent company is owned by a consortium led by the giant US investment bank JP Morgan, and Northumbria Water, owned by Hong Kong's Cheung Kong Infrastructure Holdings.

Earlier this summer a consortium led by the Kuwaiti sovereign wealth fund offered £5.3billion to buy Severn Trent Water.

Forty years ago it would have been regarded as outlandish that the water we drink from our taps would one day be owned by foreign multinationals but for millions of householders that is now the reality.

03/09/13 article in April
Almost a third of an average water bill – more than £100 a year – goes on profit, compared with 9 per cent in the energy sector, a new report claimed today.
Water bills have risen more than twice as fast as pay over the past decade in an industry which is now ‘out of control’, a study commissioned by trade union body, Unison found.
Earlier this year, industry regulator Ofwat announced a 3.5 per cent increase in the average annual bill – a hike of £13 bringing the total to £388 a year. ?????????????????????? average.
The research, conducted by the New Policy Institute, also found that water firms were making ‘huge profits’.
And it claimed that bills had trebled since the industry was privatised in 1989, well above increases in the rate of inflation.
Water bills have soared by 64 per cent in the past 10 years compared with 28 per cent for average earnings.
If the average bill had done no more than keep up with earnings, it would now be an £71 a year lower, claims the trade body.
The report also claims that high prices are due to a lack of competition in the industry.
And that many water companies have now run up heavy debts, despite previous arrears being written off upon privatisation.
.
Dave Prentis, Unison's general secretary, said: ‘This private monopoly is the worst of both worlds. Since privatisation, private equity firms have swooped in to grab a lucrative slice of the water industry pie, but households, taxpayers and employees are losing out.
'The time has come to think again, with all options on the table. We need a root and branch review to make sure the industry is run in the interests of consumers not profits.’
Dr Peter Kenway, director of the New Policy Institute, said: ‘The combination of opaque ownership, steady price rises and growing financial weakness should not be tolerated in an industry like water that is obviously too important to fail.
'Our report shows that the industry in England has big questions to answer about the deal it is offering consumers and taxpayers. It is time the Government starting asking them.’


20/09/13 metered water estimated costing.
REF. ANGLIAN WATER
Water metered customers (usage costs) per year estimated.

persons..............low.................average............above average
1.......................£203...............284.....................431
2.......................£275..............413.....................587
3.......................£341..............491.....................728
4.......................£401..............551.....................800
5......................£452...............626....................932
BOB 2
Posted: 20 September 2013 20:19:14(UTC)
#74

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

2009 report (prices/conditions are set every 5 years ofwat ) next 2014

Independent Review of Charging for Household Water and Sewerage Services,
Area 2C,
Ergon House,
Horseferry Road,
London,
SW1P 2AL
email: charging.review@defra.gsi.gov.uk
This document is available in full from our website:
www.defra.gov.uk/environ...ustry/walkerreview/index
DEF-PB13336-WatChCOV 4/12/09 15:48 Page 21
Heading
Dear Secretary of State and Welsh Minister,
You asked me in August 2008 to conduct a review into charging for
household water and sewerage services. The aim of the review was to:
– Examine the current system of charging households for water and sewerage
services; and assess the effectiveness and fairness of current and alternative
methods of charging including the issue of affordability;
– Consider social, economic and environmental concerns; and
– Make recommendations on any action that should be taken to ensure that
England and Wales have a sustainable and fair system of charging in place.
This could include changes to current legislation and guidance.
I am now enclosing my final report.
The conclusions are based on responses to an initial call for evidence in 2008 and my interim report
in July 2009. We also held workshops across the country, including two in Plymouth. The report
draws on published research and some analytical work of our own.
Overall, I have concluded that while the regulatory regime in the water industry has served customers
well over the last twenty years, we now face considerable new challenges. Changes are needed to
ensure we are ready to meet these. The charging system can play an important role in doing so. It
is important that the changes are made soon before the challenges become much bigger and more
expensive to handle.
The biggest issue is the mismatch between how we value water now and how we will need to do
so in future. Most of us currently consider water cheap and plentiful. Increasingly this may not be
the case. Demand for water is growing. Water supply is already under pressure across the south and
east of England. Climate change projections suggest the challenges will become more significant.
Summers will be warmer and drier; river flows may reduce significantly. At other times of the year,
rainfall will be heavier. Severe seasonal flooding will have consequences for our drainage system. In
addition, there are continuing upward pressures on costs as we renew our, often Victorian,
infrastructure and meet demanding environmental requirements. Affordability is already an issue for
some customers and will become more so.
Against this background, there were two clear messages from my consultations:
– It is very important that the charging system should incentivise the efficient use of water to
ensure we have a sustainable water supply.
– Water, as an essential of life, also needs to be affordable, particularly to those on low incomes..
The report highlights significant and growing concerns over the current mixed (rateable value and
metering) charging system, Rateable Value no longer targets those who need help with their bills.
Unmetered bills are rising at a faster rate than metered bills: by 29 per cent over the next five years
in the South West. The current system also does not incentivise the efficient use of water. People are
voting with their feet and opting for meters to save money on their bills.
Keeping costs down, while ensuring companies can make a fair return on their investments, will be
the most effective way of ensuring people can afford their water bills. The report makes some
recommendations to help achieve this. It also highlights the importance of ensuring the full value of
water is taken into account in any investment decisions, so we value water appropriately.

The report concludes that charging by volume of water used (which requires meters to be installed)
is the fairest approach to charging. It can incentivise more efficient use of water. However, installing
meters incurs costs. The report therefore looks at the costs and benefits of metering. It concludes
that in evaluating the benefits it is necessary to take account of both the potential water savings and
the reduced costs of more systematic metering. The current largely optant system is a very expensive
way to install meters.
The report concludes that there is a strong case for metering where water is scarce and the benefits
therefore outweigh the costs; for high discretionary users (who may not be paying for what they use
at the moment); and on change of occupancy. The case for metering is less compelling when water
is not in short supply. With metering becoming more widespread, there is a transition from one
charging system to another already under way. This cannot be achieved successfully without
leadership. The report recommends that Ofwat, working with others including the Environment
Agency, should provide this leadership. It also recommends that a working group should be set up to
ensure any synergies with the smart metering programme in the energy sector are fully exploited. The
report suggests that if these recommendations are adopted, about 80 per cent of households in
England will be metered by 2020 (it will be much lower in Wales because they have more available
water).
The report highlights that affordability is already a real issue for some groups of customers and in
high cost areas such as the South West. It therefore recommends a package of help closely targeted
on customers with low incomes. The package includes help with bills and proposes water efficiency
schemes alongside similar energy schemes. Decisions will be needed on who should fund this
package – government or water customers. The report highlights the key issues. Ofwat already has
a duty to have regard to low income customers and the report recommends that, working with the
companies, the regulator should play a more pro-active role advising government, where necessary,
on any further help which may be needed.
Bad debt is clearly placing too much of a burden on the water customers who pay their bills. The
cost to paying customers is about £12 a year, which many customers can ill afford. Debt in the water
industry is three times higher than in the energy sector, although bills are a third of energy bills. This
suggests that something is fundamentally wrong. The report recommends urgent legislative changes
to allow water companies to bill named customers, thereby allowing them to pursue debts through
the courts, if necessary.
The report also looks at who should pay for different elements of the current bill. It concludes that
prices should continue to be regional reflecting water costs. It also concludes that it is appropriate
for water customers to pay for improvements to the quality of water and the disposal of sewerage
as they are benefiting from the improvements. It stresses, however, that if water customers are to
pay for these improvements, it is vitally important that they are consulted on the additional costs
before governments agree to them – or water prices will begin to be seen as a “stealth tax” and
face real opposition, as has already occurred in the South West.
The report also concludes that the future challenge from flooding is such that the charging system
should incentivise household customers to minimise their surface drainage. It recommends that the
highways authorities should become responsible for highways drainage as they are in the best
position to influence th
The report looks at the issues in the South West. Bills are, on average, 43 per cent higher than other
areas. Local people feel that this is unfair and it raises questions of affordability. The report concludes
that the high prices have been caused by a combination of the need to install new sewerage systems
since 1989 requiring significant investment, the costs of which have fallen to the relatively small
population. The report sets out some potential remedies including a corrective adjustment paid for
either by government or by other water customers; or a package of measures to help customers in
the South West, including the possible use of a seasonal tariff.
Finally, I would like to thank everyone who has provided input to this review by way of evidence,
attending workshops or responding to our requests for information. We have had very thoughtful
input which has been greatly appreciated. I also want to thank my review team very warmly for their
continued hard work, their good humour and their willingness to go on grappling with what are very
tricky issues! These have not been easy to deal with but we hope we will have contributed to the
design of a future charging system which will help ensure sustainable supplies of water for us all at
prices that everyone can afford.
Anna Walker
December 2009

07/10/13 ref article in Telegraph
Water bills have risen sharply while investment to stop leaks has fallen, according to the latest research.
Analysis shows that four of the biggest water companies have increased bills by up to a third since 2007-08.
Over the same period, investment by the companies has fallen by up to 20 per cent, prompting calls for the Government to take action.
The report by Charlie Elphicke, a back-bench Conservative MP, has been sent to George Osborne, the Chancellor, and Owen Paterson, the Environment Secretary.
The findings come amid reports that Mr Osborne is looking to crack down on water bills as part of an assault on the rising cost of living.
Millions face higher bills under plans for compulsory water meters 09 Aug 2013
Mr Elphicke, a former tax lawyer, found that Thames Water had increased average annual bills by 28 per cent over the past six years, rising to £354 last year.
However, his analysis suggests that over the same period, real total capital expenditure fell by 20 per cent. Similarly, Southern Water pushed up average bills by 35 per cent to £449 per household, yet investment fell by 21 per cent over the same period.
Yorkshire Water saw average bills increase by 23 per cent to £368 per home, while investment fell by 13 per cent.
Both Thames and Yorkshire Water made large profits last year, of £128 million and £184 million respectively, but paid no corporation tax.
Mr Elphicke’s findings also showed evidence that many water companies had large debts, which he said was risking their financial stability.
He said: “Clearly something is rotten in the state of the water industry. Ofwat needs to act and get a grip.”
He added: “Water companies should give back their excess profits by cutting bills, and investment needs to increase so we have a 'fit for purpose’ water and sewage system. The water industry needs to improve its corporate culture. It needs to have a greater sense of social responsibility to the taxpayer and the customer.
“Water is an essential supply and the industry needs to operate in a more responsible, low risk, lower billing way.”
A spokesman for the water industry regulator said: “Ofwat is aware that water companies have benefited from very low interest rates and higher than expected inflation, while household incomes have gone down.
“We have called on companies to share these unexpected gains and listen to their customers. We believe there is scope for bills to come down over the next five-year period.”
A spokesman for Thames Water said it had not paid any tax last year “because it is investing so heavily”.
He said: “The amount we are currently spending on upgrades to our ageing pipes and sewers has never been higher than now, while our bills, at £354 a year per household on average, remain the second lowest in England and Wales.
“With further significant infrastructure upgrades needed in coming years, our customers’ bills are set to move closer to the industry average.
“The financing of this essential work, however, ensures the cost is spread over the long term, smoothing the impact on bills.”
A Southern Water spokesman said its annual price limits are approved by Ofwat.
She added: “Water companies’ investment programmes run on a five-year cycle, therefore, there will be peaks and troughs within the regulatory cycle as projects start up and conclude.”
A Yorkshire Water spokesman said: “There are no secrets here. Our prices and our capital expenditure programme are regulated by Ofwat and are a matter of public record, judged as good value for money by our customers.”
She added that the company complied “with both the spirit and letter of UK tax law and the Treasury is happy with the amount of tax we pay”.
BOB 2
Posted: 17 October 2013 22:25:35(UTC)
#75

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

17/10/13 update ref. THAMES WATER
Ofwat, the water regulator, says it plans to block Thames Water's request to increase customer bills by up to 8% next year.

The regulator has published a draft decision blocking Thames Water's request for the interim increase.

Thames had asked to add an extra £29 to the annual average household bill.

The draft decision will be followed by a short period of consultation to allow for any new evidence. The final decision is due in November.

Thames says it has faced extra costs of £291m, because various items have cost more than the amount estimated when the price regime was set in 2009.

Ofwat and Thames disagree about how much these items will cost the company.

These include bad debts, the transfer of private sewers, land purchases and higher Environment Agency charges and could not be fully estimated at the time.

As part of the regulatory process, Thames Water had planned to apply for an increase once the figures were known,

In response to Ofwat's statement, it said: "We will review Ofwat's draft proposals and submit our response in due course."

Evidence
Every five years, Ofwat sets the prices that water companies can charge. It said it had now looked at the evidence that Thames Water had provided and that although the company did face higher costs, they were not high enough to trigger a price rise.

Thames is the only one of the 18 regulated water companies to have applied to the regulator for a bill increase in advance of the next pricing review.

Ofwat's chief regulation officer, Sonia Brown, said: "We said we would challenge Thames Water's request. We have looked at the details and do not believe the current evidence justifies an increase in bills."

Thames Water has made profits of £1.7billion over the last five years on the back of a succession of inflation-busting increases in bills.
At the same time it has paid dividends of some £1.4billion to its private owners, including investment funds owned by the governments of China and Abu Dhabi
..............................................................................................................................................

1st NOVEMBER 2013 Interesting article in the Telegraph
headed. MILLIONS (COULD) see water bills savings under Government crackdown.
The announcement, which will be led by Owen Paterson, the Environment secretary, is part of an attempt by David Cameron, to bring down household costs.
The news came as Ed Miliband signalled water companies will be next in his sights as part of Labour's campaign to tackle the cost-of-living "crisis". Mr Milibands said the water industry "should be scrutinised to make sure it is working properly".
The Prime Minister’s deputy official spokesman unveiled the plan at the morning lobby briefing.
He said: “Clearly the Prime Minister wants to see household costs coming down. “There will be some progress next week which Defra will be doing on water industry and water bills. The Prime Minister takes household bills across the piece seriously and wants energy prices to be rolled back.”
Number 10 said David Cameron was keen on cutting household costs, such as freezing council tax and MoT charges for cars or bringing down train fares.
Asked if the Prime Minister was happy with the role of Ofwat, the industry regulator, he replied: “The Prime Minister wants regulators to look at industries they regulate and make sure they are as robust delivering what they need to deliver for consumers.
“The Prime Minister wants to see household expenditure being brought down - he realises that families are hard-pressed. He wants to see costs across the board being reduced where possible.
“Ofwat is determining whether price rises suggested by the companies are appropriate – that is the teeth that regulators have and should be exercising.”
Earlier this month, Ofwat rejected an attempt by Thames Water – which has 14million customers - to add an extra £29 to customers’ water bills next year.
The regulator said Thames Water, which provides water for one in four of people living in the UK, could only justify a bill hike of £7 but that this would not be imposed on customers.
Thames Water had applied in August for a one–off price increase next year that would raise average bills by 8pc from £354, blaming customers struggling to pay their bills and the cost of a super sewer under London. A final ruling is due next month.
Thames Water is subject to a five–year price control period that runs out in 2015.
The spokesman added: “Ofwat is determining whether price rises suggested by the companies are appropriate – that is the teeth that regulators have and should be exercising.”
Earlier this month Ofwat signalled that it would scrutinise all the proposals for increases covering the period 2015 to 2020.
Sonia Brown, Ofwat’s chief regulation officer, said: “If you take an average bill, we think there can be big savings because the cost of debt and equity is much lower. There is a big opportunity for those bills to go down.
“There are legitimate cost pressures for some companies, but our message is that bills should go down unless companies can explain to customers why they should not.”
She said water companies were at a “critical point” in setting out plans for the next five years. She added: “Have no doubt, we will step in if plans are put forward to us which we do not consider to be realistic.”
Analysis prepared by Charlie Elphicke MP, disclosed by The Telegraph earlier this month, found that how four of the biggest water companies have pushed up bills by up to a third in some cases since 2007/08.
my comment, the word COULD wariest me bob.
BOB 2
Posted: 01 November 2013 16:46:45(UTC)
#76

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

Average water bill £388 ????


Yes i talking water charges again, first of all a article in the paper just to remind us of the profits the water companies are making.

Water joke: £1.5billion profits but greedy water companies to put household bills up
10 Feb 2013
Greedy water companies are set to announce a surge in ­profits on the back of soaring bills.

The news comes just days after industry regulator Ofwat gave ­suppliers permission to increase prices by yet another 3.5 per cent in April.

Customers now face average annual bills of £388, a rise of £13.

Industry analysts expect three of Britain's biggest privatised water firms to ­announce combined profits of nearly ­£1.5billion in May.

United Utilities, which supplies ­water in the North West, is forecastto have made ­£627million in the year to March, up from £594m. South West Water's owner Pennon is due to unveil profits of £273m, up from £268m.

Earnings at Severn Trent, which supplies the Midlands, are ­expected to hit £525m, up from £504m.

Water firms say price increases will help pay for an investment programme costing £25m between 2010 and 2015.

Meanwhile, millions of ­households are ­already struggling after inflation-busting hikes in energy bills, as well as rising food and petrol costs.

Matthew Lay, of trade union Unison, said: "Ofwat has handed water ­companies a licence to print money. Water bill rises will only pile more pressure on hard-pressed consumers.

"Water companies ­already make huge profits. ­Customers, especially those on low incomes, need a ­regulator who will act in their ­interests.

"If not, the Government should step in and demand action."

The Consumer Council for Water added: "Companies are making higher than expected profits and they need to give some back to customers. Suppliers can limit their own prices or invest more money into services.

"They shouldn't keep it all for shareholders and ­investors."

About 2.4 million households, 11 per cent, already spend five per cent of their income on water bills, ­according to Government figures.

Last week National Debtline said it received a record 19,667 water-­related calls last year, up from 12,225 in 2011.

A spokesman said the number of calls from people struggling to pay their water bills was higher than those with rent or mortgage difficulties

bob's comment. the above article states the average water bill is £388 but is this the true
cost of a average water bill, are they including ,sewage and standing charges,plus surface water charges, who actually pays the average?what they should be saying is
The average annual total water/sewage charge for the average family that's two adults and two children is £................. on a meter and £.............. on rateable value water charge ,

06/11/13
After e.mailing ofwat regards to the average water bill of £388 .this is the answer i got back.
Dear Mr .

Thank you for your email.

The figure of £388 is an average: it comes from dividing all the money the water companies are allowed to raise from their customers this year by the number of customers. The average is thus the same for every household, irrespective of its make-up. The figure includes all charges.

But it is not intended to be seen as a typical or median bill. It is possible that nobody pays exactly £388. Individual bills depend on the company’s charging scheme and the customer’s usage (or rateable value if unmetered).

I hope this is helpful.

If you require any further information or have any additional questions please do contact me.

Yours sincerely

Gemma Thomas
Correspondence & Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Communications
Ofwat

Tel: 0121 644 7644
Mobile : 0754 067 1545

Ofwat.gov.uk
Address: Centre City Tower, 7 Hill Street, Birmingham, B5 4UA
Follow us on twitter: twitter.com/Ofwat

bob's comment. so it seems all the water bills across the country are added together an divided by the totally amount of customers, giving you the average bill.
but what i am trying to get at is the average in each area, so we can see how bills differ from say the south west to say Yorkshire or whales ,now that would be interesting.
so Dear Gemma Thomas,thank you for your e.mail regards to the average water £388
as i am paying £1000 plus in somerset, and i am sure a lot of other people are to in different
areas , can you tell me what the average water bill would be for 1. south west 2. Somerset
3. Yorkshire 4.Wales ect
what i and i sure lots of other people would like to find out is the average water cost in each area/ water company , or can you suggest a way of finding out,
thanks bob.


interesting article in the Telrgraph today 8/11/13
headed. 30% of supermarket bottled water sold is from a tap, by Richard dyson
Many see bottled water as a planet-destroying indulgence, generating mountains of plastic waste and burning needless oil in transport. And yes, of the 18 billion bottles bought each year in Britain only a quarter are recycled – meaning the rest will lie in a landfill site somewhere for the anticipated 450 years it will take them to decompose.
But the environmental debate is for another page. Here we are looking at what you pay for the water you drink – and what you get.
What price tap?
Lobby group Tapwater.org – which is against the consumption of bottled water – reckons British tap water costs 0.09p per litre, or two buckets a penny. By comparison, Tapwater claims, the average UK consumer gulps their way through £25,000 of bottled water in a lifetime.
But tap-water costs are relative. Savings-fixated householder Lee Beaumont, 25, made national news last month when he declared – in the face of the £14-a-month standing charge being imposed by his supplier Yorkshire Water – that he would like to be disconnected from the mains and would instead live entirely on bottled water. By using disposable plates and cups and washing with wet-wipes, he claimed he could limit his water consumption – in the form of a £10 multipack of bottled water – to less than the cost of the Yorkshire Water supply to his flat.
Few others would be so extreme. But Mr Beaumont made a valid point, which is that the cost of tap water relates to householders' usage. Because of the fixed-cost element of water supply, households using less will pay more. So it is difficult to accurately price a "glass of tap water".
Also, the cost of tap water is surging. Ofwat, the water watchdog, estimates household water bills have leapt from an average £295 in 2004 to almost £400 this year, and just this week Owen Paterson, the Environment Secretary, urged water companies to hold back from price increases with the biggest supplier, Thames Water, seeking to push through an 8pc rise.
Still water by the bottle
First, what is it you're buying? An estimated 30pc of supermarket bottled water is tap. As Sainsbury's pointed out in one of its recent "same price, different values" adverts: "Take the water above. One's from Sainsbury's basics range… a spring in Yorkshire, filtered through Greenmoor rock. The other's Tesco Everyday Value. It starts at the mains supply." Tesco's water comes in packs of six 500ml bottles for 63p, or 21p per litre.
Bottled tap water is usually labelled either "table" or "English" water.
Mineral water must originate from an underground source and be safe to drink without treatment. Global brands include Volvic and Evian (both owned by Danone). Researchers say that UK consumers are switching steadily to local brands such as Buxton and Highland Spring. Tesco sells 12 500ml bottles of highland Spring for £3 – that's 50p per litre.

UPDATE THAMES WATER/OFWAT 8/11/13 Bill hike reprieve for millions as Thames Water's plan to increase prices is blocked by regulator
Thames Water had asked to hike bills by eight per cent
Move seen as signalling a wider crackdown on rising bills
Cameron has hinted at plans to target the water industry next in row over rising utility bills
Millions of households have been saved from an eight per cent increase in their water bills after regulator Ofwat said today it has blocked a proposed hike.
Thames Water was attempting to slap an extra £29 on customers’ water bills next year. But today water regulator Ofwat sensationally refused Thames Water’s request to hike bills, in a move seen as signalling a wider crackdown on rising bills.
Thames Water, which has 14million customers, asked the regulator to be allowed to increase prices in August above the limits agreed in 2009.
Phew! Thames Water will not be able to hike bills by eight per cent
Phew! Thames Water will not be able to hike bills by eight per cent
But today Ofwat said the water and sewerage company could don't justify the rise.
Rising utility bills have shot to the top of the political agenda after four of Britain's energy suppliers raised charges by more than three times the rate of inflation.

Ministers are reportedly set to announce a package of measures to shake up the market to ensure customers get a ‘good deal’.
While households have no choice over their water supplier, it is expected to include more discounts or ‘social tariffs’ for pensioners and the low paid.
Ofwat flagged last month that it was likely to block Thames Water's bid to rise prices.
'We said we would challenge Thames' application, in the interests of customers,’ said Ofwat chief regulation officer Sonia Brown. ‘We did just that and on the evidence provided we are not convinced that an extra bill increase is justified.’
It said Thames Water can now make an appeal to Britain's competition authorities.
Thames is run by chief executive Martin Baggs – who enjoys a £1.1million pay packet – and is owned by a consortium of international investors led by the Australian private equity firm Macquarie.
Average water bills
It claimed £16 of the extra £29 was accounted for by increases in bad debt - when customers fail to pay their bills - due to the economic downturn.
The company also insisted that the cost of land purchases associated with its planned ‘super sewer’ under the Thames meant it needed more money. The firm also said the cost of transferring private sewers to its ownership had proved more expensive than anticipated while environmental charges had also risen.
But the regulator said it was unconvinced by the company's calculations on bad debts, slashing Thames Water's assessment of £75million of extra costs due to ‘additional deprivation’ to just £13million.
It added Thames Water ‘overestimated’ an increase in bad debt write-offs, adding ‘we do not think the company is achieving best practice in debt management’.

The average usage chart as below was part of the report. ........................ AVERAGE WATER BILL ,METERED AND RATEABLE VALUE .CHART
ACROSS THE COUNTRY,APPROX .SUMS
WATER COMPANIES..................METERED..........RATEABLE VALUE CHARGE
Anglian............................................£395...........................£540........................
DWr CYMRU....................................£310...........................£500.......................
NORTHUMBRIAN..............................295............................£380.......................
SEVEN TRENT.................................£300...................... ...£350........................
SOUTH WEST..................................£408..........................£800.......................
SOUTHERN......................................£420..........................£480.......................
THAMES...........................................£215..........................£380......................
UNITED UTILITIES............................£360..........................£425.......................
WESSEX...........................................£405.........................£560......................
YORKSHIRE.....................................£300..........................£415......................
How accurate this chart is ?


report 25/11/13 ref. LABOUR SEEKS AMENDMENTS TO WATER BILLS
Speaking ahead of the second reading of the water bill due to take place today, labour has called on the Government to strengthen the powers of Ofwat (the idustry regulator )
Maria Eagle, the shadow environment secretary, said that Ofwat should intervene when monopoly water providers failed to limit price rises or cut bills in circumstances where they have benefitted from “better than expected financial circumstances beyond their control”.
In addition, Eagle called for an amendment to legislation that required all water companies to introduce a national affordability scheme to help those struggling with their bills.
This she said, would end the current “postcode lottery whereby companies choose whether to offer a social tariff.”
“The water companies are making eye-watering amounts of money while customers face some of the highest bills in Europe. Yet all we have seen from the Government is a single weakly worded letter to water bosses begging them not to hike bills again next year. That is simply not good enough and families deserve better,” said Eagle.
“Labour would be taking tough action to bring the rising cost of water under control. We would strengthen Ofwat’s power to reopen price settlements to cut bills where companies are making excessive profits and force all water companies to support a national affordability scheme to help those struggling to pay their bill,” she added.
BOB 2
Posted: 02 December 2013 20:12:36(UTC)
#77

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

FROM Ofat 02/12/13
Companies’ proposals for changes in average household bills over five years (2015 – 2020) excluding inflation a
The below data has been supplied by companies and has not been verified by Ofwat. Ofwat is still to analyse and challenge companies’ proposals.

A more detailed version of the below table will be made available on www.ofwat.gov.uk

Company
Proposed % change in average water bill 2015–2020a

Proposed % change in average sewerage bill 2015–2020a

Proposed % change in average combined bill 2015–2020a

Water and sewerage companies




BELOW PROPOSED % CHANGES BY WATER COMPANY'S 2015 TO 2020
ref. OFWAT

Anglian

-7.1 AVERAGE WATER BILL.
-9.4 AVERAGE SEWAGE BILL
-8.4 AVERAGE COMBINED BILL

Dŵr Cymru

-4.6 AVERAGE WATER BILL
-4.9 AVERAGE SEWAGE BILL
-4.8 AVERAGE COMBINED BILL
Northumbrian


Northumbrian (excluding Essex & Suffolk)

0.0 A.W.B
0.0 A.S.B
0.0 A.C.B
Essex & Suffolk b.

-0.4 A.W.B

Severn Trent.

-3.8 A.W.B
-3.8 A.S.B
-3.8 A.C.B

South West c e

-10.9 A.W.B over the next 5 years
-1.9 A.S.B
-4.5 A.C.B

Southern

-0.9 A.W.B
-0.5 A.S.B
-0.6 A.C.B
Thames

-6.8 A.W.B
+34.8 A.S.B
+10.4 A.C.B ( average combined bill Thames up 10.4% over the next 5 years
United Utilities

-3.0 A.W.B
1.8 A.S.B
-0.5 A.C.B

Wessexe

-8.4 A.W.B
-3.2 A.S.B
-6.0 A.C.B

Yorkshire

-8.2 A.W.B
+6.8 A.S.B
0.0 A.C.B

WATER COMPANIES ONLY.

Affinity Water
???
Central region

-3.5

East region

-3.5
Southeast region

-3.5

Bristol

-1.0

South Staffordshire Cambridge

??
Cambridge

0.0

South Staffordshire

0.0

Dee Valley

+8.9
??

Portsmouth

0.0

Sembcorp Bournemouth

-9.1

South East

0.0

Sutton & East Surrey

0.0

a) Companies are allowed to add the RPI rate of inflation to their bills on an annual basis. The figures in this table do not include any forecast of that inflation.

b) The % change for Northumbrian - Essex and Suffolk is for water only bills, as they only provide water services.

c) South West Water’s total change in bill includes a £50 Government contribution in all years.

d) South West Water and Sembcorp Bournemouth Water have brought forward reductions in bills to smooth changes in bills over six years rather than five. This means customers will benefit from lower bills than anticipated in 2014/15. Yet it also means these companies start the 2015/20 period with a lower average bill than they were allowed. This means the figures in this table therefore understate the overall benefit to customers of the approach of these companies.

e) The figures for Thames Water include costs for the Thames Tideway Tunnel - a project to deal with the fact that London’s sewerage system can no longer cope with its growing population and the volumes of sewage produced. Without the exceptional costs of the Thames Tideway Tunnel, Thames Water is proposing that the average water and sewerage bill would reduce by 1% between 2015 – 20 (excluding the forecast impact of inflation).

f) Changes in United Utilities Water bills are presented after taking into account an estimate of the impact of a one-off discount which will be applied to customer bills in 2014/15. This means customers will benefit from lower bills than anticipated in 2014/15. Yet it also means United Utilities will start the 2015/20 period with a lower average bill than they were allowed. This means the figures in this table therefore understate the overall benefit to customers of the approach of the company.

g) Wessex Water and Yorkshire Water have announced they are not taking up their allowed increase in prices in the year 2014/15. This means customers will benefit from lower bills than anticipated in 2014/15. Yet it also means these companies start the 2015/20 period with a lower average bill than they were allowed. This means the figures in this table therefore understate the overall benefit to customers of the approach of these companies.

Further note: Ofwat is aware that other companies are considering whether to take their full allowed increase in prices in 2014/15. The figures in this table are based on changes from 2014/15 prices. Ofwat will re-issue this table if other companies decide to not take up their full allowance next year.


22/12/13
ADDED INFORMATION REGARDING RATEABLE VALUE/WATER CHARGES.

Rateable value explained

What's a rateable value?

Rateable values are used by water companies to work out how much to charge people without a water meter. They were used for everyone's bills until 1990. The values were assessed and changed by the Valuation Office of the Inland Revenue and were loosely based on the annual rental value of the property.

What's rateable value based on?

Rateable values were decided between 1973 and 1990. A number of things were considered by the Valuation Office when deciding annual rental values. These included the size of the property and plot, area, general condition and availability of local services.

Unfortunately, we have no details of how individual values were calculated and aren't able to work out why similar properties in the same street have slightly different values.

Can my rateable value be changed?

The Valuation Office no longer changes rateable values and water companies are not allowed to change them. So any home improvements to a property since 1990 aren't considered. In cases where the rateable value is clearly invalid, for example if a property is redeveloped and split into flats, the only alternative way to charge is to fit a water meter.

The important thing to remember is that rateable value charging is not related to the actual amount of water you use. The calculation is simply the rateable value multiplied by a charge for each service (water and/or wastewater). Single occupier discount given for council tax doesn't apply to water charges.


22/12/13 bob's report
I have just queried with OFWAT does your house rateable value, based water charge change on the number of adults living in the house, but after finding the above information
I can see it doesn't .

So you lucky people ,paying your combined water bills on rateable value.

1. you can have as many people living in your house as you like and your only pay the
house valuation/water charge as set pre 1990 .
this is quite popular in some family's where all the family like to live together in a house
for a unspecified period.
so you mite get 5 adults and 3 or more children all living in a house,
all using water ,like there was no tomorrow,
unlimited usage of water.
any extra charge other than assed house rateable value NO

IS THIS A FAIR WATER USAGE CHARGING SYSTEM. no its not

The figures I am about to print below are correct .
The Sing family live in a 3 bed house at the end of road, they pay ap.£575 water rates
there are 5 adults and 3 children living in the property and they have access to a unlimited
amount of water, at no extra charge.

Now just across the road , the plum family , live in a newer house built after 1990 fitted with a WATER METER normally its just the two of them, but for the past year ,they been kind enough to put up there son and family until they can afford there own home.
over the past 12 months there water bill has rocketed to £1,142.07usinng 279 cubic metres
the bills every 6 months to 16/12/13 from made up bill 1 £587.31 bill 2 £554.76
there now paying £109.50 a month for combined water bill on a meter
water is charged at £2.1724 a cubic metre and sewage £2.3987 per cubic metre of water used. plus combined service charges of £77.00 with a small discount of 5% for all surface water going to soakaways.
this family pay for every drop of water they use and are stuck with a water meter.

HOW ON EARTH CAN THIS BE A FAIR WATER CHARGING SYSTEM.


*********************************************************************************************************
23/12/13 ref. reply from OFWAT this morning .You are correct – properties billed on rateable value are charged the same irrespective of the number of occupants.

This is not a fair system – it is just the only system, apart from metering, the law allows. Ofwat supports metering as the fairest way to pay, but we do not have the powers to introduce universal metering; this is for Government. Only those companies who can demonstrate that their regions are severely water-stressed (currently all in the South East of England) are allowed to introduce universal metering.

I hope this is helpful.
**********************************************************************************************************
bob's comment
So it seems even OFWAT thinks this is a unfair system, but for how long will the burden be
put onto water metered customers, with no option, stuck on a expensive water meter
of course unless they sell up and move into a house built before 1990 with a rateable value. Again I stress to you thinking of buying a house, and you consider your selves as med. to high water users ,or your going to be ,having 2 to 3 children , as above costing, water meters
can be very expensive, do your home work, and you mite decide to go for a house with
water bills based on the houses rateable value. good luck.
**********************************************************************************************************
ref. my reply to OFWAT 24/12/13 many thanks for your answer to my question, there is so many things unfair about the current water charging system

1. there should be a common fixed price across the country for water, sewage, standing charges and discounts, at the moment there seems to be quite a difference in charges
from area to area .
Or
2.as energy companies ,you should be able to transfer to a cheaper water supply company and set up a contract term ,not being able to do this at the moment is surely breaking the rules for human rights,

3.water companies should be limited to the profits taken out of the company for share holders, at the moment they seem to be making far to much money and not pumping enough back into replacement /maintenance of old equipment.
**********************************************************************************************************
BOB 2
Posted: 25 January 2014 23:49:30(UTC)
#78

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

25/01/2014
LETS START COMPARING WATER COMPANY CHARGES.(METERED WATER)
ON A USAGE OF 100 CUBIC METERS OF WATER USED PER YEAR
note one cubic metre of water = 1000 litres .

So as my water supply company is WESSEX WATER CO. lets compare price to
SOUTHERN WATER, who are installing meters at the moment

WESSEX WATER CHARGES.
Water standing charge annually = £24.00
charge per cubic metre of water = £2.1724

Sewage standing charge annually = £53.00
charge per cubic metre of water used/ is £2.3987 what there saying is if you use a 100 cubic metres of water you must be flushing a 100 metres of water down the drain ,?????????????

Going on a 100 cubic metres of water used a year figure
cost total per year
water standing charge =£24.00
water used 100 x £2.1724 = £217.24
sewage standing charge annually = £53.00
sewage charge based on water usage, 100 x £2.3987 = £239.87
total charge for year based on usage of 100 cubic metres of water used is £ 534.11
now if you divide the total sum £534.11 by 100,000 it = £.0053411 cost per litre of water used
sum up total cost of combined water/sewage used annually =£.0053411 for every litre of water used.

SOUTHERN WATER CHARGES
Water standing charge annually = £26.44
charge per cubic metre of water= £1.169
Sewage standing charge annually = £20.70 annually.
sewage, charge per cubic metre of water used is £2.198
surface water drainage charge annually =£23.00
highway drainage charge,annually = £11.00

Going on a 100 cubic metres of water used a year .
total cost per year
water standing charge= £26.44
water used 100 cubic metres = £116.90
sewage standing charge annually = £20.70
sewage charge based on water usage of 100 x £2.198 = £219.80
surface water drainage charge,annually =£23.00
highway drainage charge,annually =£11.00
total charge for year based on usage on a usage of 100 cubic metres of water =£417.84
now divide £417.84 by 100,000 it = £.0041784 a litre
so the difference in costing between wessex water and southern water is
total wessex= £534.11
total southern= £417.84
a difference of £116.27 for a usage of 100 cubic meters of water used per annum.
JohnW
Posted: 26 January 2014 11:09:11(UTC)
#79

Joined: 14/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 582

There is of course the other side of the coin. I an on a water meter and it reduced my bill considerably. Why should I have to pay extra to subsidise large families? People have a choice on size of family these days so really should not have families larger than they can afford.

White Stick follower
Posted: 26 January 2014 11:46:38(UTC)
#83

Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 49

Bob 2- Yes I have made this point before that sewage/foul water charges relate exactly to water imported to the property. This is illogical, as it makes no allowance for, say garden watering, pond filling*, steam into the air, and indeed the amount that we as humans lose by evaporation. Whilst I can see that it would be difficult to quantify these figures it is nonetheless a charge for processing water which they are not processing. However if this were to be changed no doubt the sewage treatment charge would rise to recover lost revenue.

* On the rare occasion that I empty my 1000 gallon pond the dirty water goes onto the garden- very good as plant food. Ponds also loose a lot of water by evaporation in warm weather- not that I recall much of that, and lately it certainly hasn't needed any fresh water top ups. The rain is more than compensating- and its better for the fish.
claudescott
Posted: 26 January 2014 12:02:55(UTC)
#84

Joined: 03/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2

question is
should I feel guilty for holding on to my United Utilities shares ??


PS nothing wrong for disliking spelling mistakes !
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