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water meters good or bad,plus up to date comments regarding water.
BOB 2
Posted: 26 January 2014 18:37:00(UTC)
#85

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

26/01/14
First of all i will remind you of what ofwat said, to my question to them,ref unfair system.
23/12/13 ref. reply from OFWAT this morning .You are correct – properties billed on rateable value are charged the same irrespective of the number of occupants.
.........................................................................................................................................
This is not a fair system – it is just the only system, apart from metering, the law allows. Ofwat supports metering as the fairest way to pay, but we do not have the powers to introduce universal metering; this is for Government. Only those companies who can demonstrate that their regions are severely water-stressed (currently all in the South East of England) are allowed to introduce universal metering.
...........................................................................................................................................
The reason i started this discussion was to enlighten people of the total unfair water charging
system and conditions in place at the moment, regarding rateable value charge v water metered
charges and conditions, such as

Rateable value charge , you can have a unlimited amount of people living in a house ,using a unlimited amount of water,for the rateable value charge of the property,

Water metered customers, pay for every drop of water they use, and have no option to change
to a rateable value charge, unless they have changed from rateable value, to a water meter and then they are allowed to swap back if they don't like it within 12 months,
otherwise there stuck on a water meter full stop.

I am not against water meters providing everybody has one,and they have a choice to swap
water companies for a better deal, creating competition between water supply companies /
keeping the price down.
Its the system in place at the moment, in my eyes is totally unfair ,some water metered customers paying double of what is charged to a house a few hundred yards away and
the house a few hundred yards away can be letting rooms out, or putting up relatives,or
water the garden all day and night in the summer and who to know if there using 5000 litres a day, only the usher.

Reason i am comparing water company charges is i sure i read somewhere there is only supposed to be 5% difference in water company charges, as you can see above
the difference between wessex water and southern water is more like 20% difference.

Ref owing water company shares,no problem suggest open your money box and buy as many as possible in fact make a take over bid to get the company and profits back in Britain .
to many companies sold down the river to foreign companies .
Elizabeth Grey
Posted: 05 March 2014 12:05:56(UTC)
#86

Joined: 16/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Just my experience, for my household having a water meter saw us make a significant saving. We installed one voluntarily as our water company estimated that we'd save money, and they were correct.

I think because we're two adults living in what would often be a family home, and a family of 4 or 5 is obviously going to use a lot more water than two adults who have a fairly low water usage - e.g. showers rather than baths, being careful about using appliances.

Personally I think that anything that rewards considerate water usage and using resources thoughtfully is to be encouraged! Although on the other hand I wouldn't want anyone going to the opposite extreme to save water! ;)
1 user thanked Elizabeth Grey for this post.
BOB 2 on 06/03/2014(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 06 March 2014 00:35:01(UTC)
#87

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

Thanks Elizabeth for your comment
yes you can save money on a water meter (providing)
1.The house has a low occupancy 1 or 2 people
2. The house has a high rateable value.
3.you're very careful in how much water you use.
a,don't bathe too often .
b.never wash your car or water the garden with a hose,
c.only flush when necessary.
4.and you live in a area where the charges by the water co. are low
So anybody can compare my charges from Wessex Water
my last bill was for approx 6 months 19/6/13 to 16/12/13
we used 133 cubic metres of water, (1 cubic meter of water = 1000 litres )
so we in fact used 133,000 litres
and the bill total was £554.76 this includes sewage charge based on water usage, plus standing charges, and a small discount for water going to soakaways,
now this is how i work out the cost per litre to compare,

divide £554.76 by 133000 =.0041711 cost per litre of water used
so get hold of your bill and do a comparison and see how much its costing you for 1 litre of water

divide your whole bill by the amount of water used ,remembering 1 cubic meter of water
=1000 litres and compare with mine .0041711 bob 06/03/14
BOB 2
Posted: 09 May 2014 16:13:16(UTC)
#88

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

09/05/2014
REPORT FOUND OF INTEREST IN THE TIMES TODAY One in five households cannot afford to pay their water bill, a survey by the industry watchdog has revealed.
With Ofwat, the regulator, piling the pressure on the country’s 19 regional supply companies to cut their charges, the Consumer Council for Water (CCWater) said an increasing number of people were complaining that they did not believe their bills were fair
The survey found that 20% of households said that their water bill was not affordable compared
with one in eight the previous year.
While about nine out of ten households were happy with their water and sewage services ,the research found that only seven out of ten thought they were getting value for money.
Barely half said the charges were fair ,down from 67% in 2011 .
The research has been released at a delicate time for the industry as 15 water companies struggle to come to a agreement with ofwat over the regulator's demands that charges in real terms over the next pricing period, from 2015 to 2020.
Water bills differ markedly around the nation . The highest are in the west country,where charges are inflated by the demand for environmental spending on the coastline ,£600 charges
a year for the west country are falling on average to below £500 after the additional intervention of the ministers, who have granted subsidies of £50 per household in the predominantly conservative and liberal Democrat region,Severn Trent has the lowest average charge in the country, though these have recently risen to £333 a year on average .

my comment the amounts quoted above are only average charges ,if you're, lucky you might be only paying around £200 in the Severn Trent area or if you're unlucky you could be paying £1000 plus and believe me a lot of people are .
The charges by water companies should be balanced out so you don't get big variations across the country otherwise we should be able to pick the water company with the best contracted price as electricity/gas supply companies ,

13/06/2014 UPDATE Thames Water sees tax credit increase from £5m to £87m despite 79% jump in profits

Thames Water was handed an £87.4million tax credit by HMRC, despite racking up earnings of £259million last year.
The utility company’s profits jumped 79 percent on the back of revenue up 8.5 per cent to £1.9billion, a rise chairman Sir Peter Mason said was ‘driven by increased prices’.
Despite the surge the tax credit, which will be deducted from future cheques to HMRC, soared from £5million last year to £87.4million. This was largely down to a £132million boost after Chancellor George Osborne reduced corporation tax from 23 per cent to 20 per cent
.......................................( Driven by increased prices ..................................................
thanks maggie
Len Murray1
Posted: 13 June 2014 14:43:39(UTC)
#89

Joined: 02/02/2013(UTC)
Posts: 4

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
BOB,

I've just seen your post from a few months ago, the one in which you said you used 133 cubic metres in 6 months.

This is an absolutely staggering amount of water to get through if there's only 2 of you in the household.

I've just had my last bill through from Wessex Water, and we are using 50 cubic metres between the two of us in a six month period.

We're in all day, have baths every day, use a dishwasher, water the garden whenever it needs it. Basically we never watch water usage because the bills aren't high enough to warrant it.

Have you checked your water usage with other people to see what is normal, because I would expect normal water usage per person per year to be about 50 cubic metres each? You seem to be using as much water as a 5 person household.

1 user thanked Len Murray1 for this post.
BOB 2 on 13/06/2014(UTC)
White Stick follower
Posted: 13 June 2014 16:20:16(UTC)
#90

Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 49

As Bob 2 knows I have similar usage to you with just 2 persons in the house and all of the facilities we all use, plus 1000 gallon fish pond, and pressure washer for 90 metres of sandstone- used about twice a year,and 2 cars to wash, and a large garden. I used a total of 47.5 cu metres over the last 6 months to February 2014 and my D/D's for my bill have gone up to £20 per month from £19. We do take showers rather than baths, but these are power showers. Despite endless research we have never managed to work out how Bob 2 has such high bills. I know that he has had his meters checked and/or changed.
BOB 2
Posted: 13 June 2014 16:22:07(UTC)
#91

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

yes len it was a staggering amount to use in approx. 183 days
and this was without using a garden hose or hosing the car
at that time we had 4 adults and one child in our house, totaling 5
except for the child in the house 70% of the day flushing/washing etc
so i tried to break it down

1. flushing toilet 20 times a day 6 lts x 20 =120lts
2. p.shower, 4 adults, 26 lts min a shower = 104 lts
3. washing up, morning,lunch, dinner, sup. = 65 lts
4.sink washing hands,teeth, etc. =50 lts
5. washing machine, seemed to be going all day
so we will call it 5 times a day as my wife likes to
give the cloths an extra rinse 70 lts x 5 =350
6. bathing my grandson, each day plus shower
full bath was used, 80 lts a day
i make the total 769 litres a day
so i used 133 cubic metres in say 183 days
133 x 1000 = 133,000 litres divide by 183 =726.775 average used a day ref bill
so my estimate was a bit high , but you can see how we used it.
only two of us now,and got rid of the power shower, bills back to average
but its still not right, if i had lived i a older house with a rateable value my bill for the 18 months would have been the same ,
so us water metered customers are being penalised so rateable value customers can use a unlimited amount of water, say 10 times as much for far less than we are paying.
BOB 2
Posted: 26 June 2014 11:26:51(UTC)
#92

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

water/sewage charges ref (wessex water) from 01/04/14

water services up from 217.24p to 224.46p per cubic metre

sewage services up from 180.36p to 185.74p per cubic metre/based on water used,

standing charge for water stays the same at £24.00 annually,
standing charge for sewage goes up to £54.00 annually from £53.00

notes 1000 Litres = 1 cubic metre of water

saving tips
1. plumb in ballofix valves to sink taps, and adjust to lower throughput at a cost of about £2 a valve.
2.lower water level in toilet system,by adjusting ball valve stop screw, or place a brick or half a brick in system ,
3.If your water pressure is excessively high, you can purchase a pressure reducer valve for around £25 and plumb it into the supply pipe after the stop cock ,then adjust to a more acceptable flow rate.
4.each house has its own water meter, find out where it is and take a reading once a week/7 days or month /30 days so you can see what you are using.
5. if you suspect a leak , turn off all the taps in the house ,wait at least 15 minutes to allow for water header tank to fill up ,go to water meter check dial and there should be no movement at
all, if there is recheck everything is turned off. check meter again if its still moving, turn off your stop cock tight. now check meter again if its still moving its indicating there is a leak in the supply pipe from meter to your stop cock, report to water supply company, if there is no movement in meter when you turn of your stop cock,but movement in the meter with it open and
you got all your taps,etc turned off, its indicating you have a internal pipe work leak. may be under floor or may be ball valve in loft not shutting off correctly, checks or get in a plumber.
good luck,

08/07/14 WESSEX WATER Business plan 2015-2020

We’ve submitted our final business plan to Ofwat for 2015-2020 that details investment plans for the future based on customer priorities.

It follows our biggest and most in-depth customer consultation exercise which involved getting the views of more than 24,000 customers and 90 organisations such as Citizens Advice. We have also responded to the views of Ofwat since our original publication in December 2013.

Our engagement with customers was overseen by an independent customer scrutiny group. They have submitted a report to Ofwat on this and a further report on the changes we have made since December.

Keeping your bill affordable

We are proposing to keep bill rises below inflation every year for the next five years.

This means the average household bill in 2019-20 will be £37 a month (before inflation) compared to the current average bill of £40 a month.

To improve water and sewerage infrastructure, provide higher levels of service and continue to make environmental improvements, we plan to invest £1.2 billion between 2015 and 2020.

Our business plan sets out how we will perform against nine promises that we developed in consultation with customers.


SOUTHERN WATER BUSINESS PLAN 2015-20
Southern Water customers are set to benefit from lower average bills after the company updated its Business Plan for 2015 to 2020.

It is now proposed that average bills will rise by 3.2 per cent less than the rate of inflation. This compares with an increase of 1.5 per cent below inflation in the plan put forward to the water industry regulator Ofwat in December last year.

Matthew Wright, Southern Water’s Chief Executive, said: “We have worked hard to respond to Ofwat’s feedback on our plan and this means we can now provide even better value for money for our customers. We believe our proposals strike the right balance between the need to deliver the improved services customers want, cater for a growing population in our region, safeguard the environment and make sure bills are affordable.

“Our plan is based on the views of more than 27,000 people from across our region and includes 26 promises which we are making to customers about the quality of service they receive. One of these key commitments is that we will make nearly £200 million in efficiency savings between 2015 and 2020 – that amounts to about £20 per year for every household we serve.”

The range of improvements Southern Water’s plan will deliver includes:
90 per cent of customers’ queries resolved the first time they contact Southern Water
A 25 per cent reduction in sewer flooding inside people’s homes and businesses
No ‘serious pollution incidents’ affecting local rivers and coastal waters caused by Southern Water’s operations
A 15 per cent increase in the number of beaches with the official ‘excellent’ rating for bathing water quality
A further reduction in leakage of two million litres a day
A reduction of 15 litres per person, per day in average water use.

Ofwat is due to publish a final determination on Southern Water’s plan in December 2014.

***********EXTRA NOTE OF INTEREST, taken from ofwat site********************
2002, the Government said that it would not introduce competition for household customers. It felt that the cost and complexity of the regulation that would be required would outweigh any benefits
my comment utter rubbish, that's what the industry want's a bit of competition to bring the
prices down, its now 2014 still no competition between water company's, why ,why,
otherwise we are stuck in some areas with higher than normal charges.
GiltEdgedInvestor
Posted: 12 July 2014 19:08:17(UTC)
#80

Joined: 03/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 20

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)
JohnW;22785 wrote:
There is of course the other side of the coin. I an on a water meter and it reduced my bill considerably. Why should I have to pay extra to subsidise large families? People have a choice on size of family these days so really should not have families larger than they can afford.



This is a dangerous thing to say: where was my choice when my second pregnancy was a multiple one? You don't ASK for twins or triplets!

So, here I sit, with three kids, various cats & dogs, a garden in a four bed semi with a quite juicy rateable value of £376 pa. The D/W uses 11 litres (yes, I know, aren't I lucky! it cost an arm and a bloody leg, is 12 years old and no, I'm not selling it. If you want to know if you would be better off waterwise by doing the washing up, wash up with a kettle for a few days so you can count - I had to do this for a week and then knew that I used 14 litres a day to do the washing up and the D/W paperwork told me the amount it uses so it's a no-brainer for me! Plus does the washing up on the cheap rate time on the white meter I have fitted - 5p a unit!)

The washer is a large fill one - 8kg's and is full every time I use it, around 14 times a month. (also on the cheap rate at night) The D/W goes on most nights and every 2nd weekend it gets two days off. I have water butts on every downpipe for the garden and don't water much. If it can't survive, it won't. The toilet cistern is too small already for a brick. The kids share a bath by topping up half way through. Showers are on the cheap rate so at least I save money that way.

I don't want a meter and shall fight one if they insist. When the kids leave and I downsize to a one bed terrace, fine.

I'm with Northumbrian Water, and we of course up here have Kielder, the reservoir they all said was too big, and sacked the bloke who built it. There's a 2m bore pipe to Yorkshire Water as they apparently don't have enough for themselves, and Kielder has never been less than 85% full since it was built. The pipe replaces the 1994 (I think) debacle of a fleet of tankers going from Leymoor ressie in Huddersfield to Teesside's 3 day buffer ressie for industry at Long Newton, for three or four months. It's been used several times since inception.

I find leaks, I report them. Everyone should. That water welling up on the footpath isn't a spring, it's an expensive leak that gets more expensive the longer it goes on.

The water companies get fined if they have too many expensive leaks - like the 32" main that went here last year. They're also fined if they have to use too many chemicals in the treatment process, and when that's from a river fed source, it's a nightmare in the Autumn with the farm runoff. The fines can be big.


If you want revenge on your water company, buy shares. If you can't beat em, join em.



BTW, the white meter is a fab idea. You get cheap overnight lekky and pay a bit over the odds for the daytime lekky. I have a 55/45 split with the first being night time use. I have three ovens and cook from scratch every night but use a pressure cooker, smallest oven poss, stacked steamer, slow cooker or BBQ when possible, charge stuff on a timer, I even bake bread overnight.

If you have spare RockWool, pull the bath panel off and put it round the bath. You'll save energy. Leave it to go cold before draining it, it'll warm the bathroom and corridor. This saves energy. It's all £££ in the end.









1 user thanked GiltEdgedInvestor for this post.
BOB 2 on 13/07/2014(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 04 August 2014 16:01:23(UTC)
#93

Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 709

This may be the answer ,if we stick together
Zoe Sinclair has a government petition running until 3/3/2015 as below

HM Government

Accessibility Home
Search published e-petitions



e-petition number 61227



Stop the monopoly that water companies have - overhaul our water industry

Responsible department: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs


Our water industry is outdated and out of touch. Water customers are being disadvantaged. We want the government to hold a thorough review of the water industry and to introduce radical change that will benefit every water customer and our environment.

Unlike other sectors, if a water customer is unhappy with their water company they don’t have the choice to take their custom elsewhere. Our water companies hold the monopoly, they have no competitor. Introducing competitors would positively influence standards and improve levels of service. Water companies would have to become concerned about potential loss of business and would need to proactively evaluate the services they offer.

This review should extend to the effectiveness of industry agencies (CC Water, Ofwat, PHSO) in place to ‘protect’ the water customer and should aim to standardise the compensation criteria and compensation levels within this sector.
Please sign this petition to bring positive change

I have signed it, for the opportunity to change water supply company's and create a fairer system , THIS IS YOUR OPPERTUNITY TO DO SOMTHING TO CHANGE THIS TOTALLY UNFAIR STSTEM, VOTE NOW PLEASE
at E-PETITION
http: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions./61227

update on votes now 6 but we need a 1000

***************************** http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/61227 **********************
click above thanks bob
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