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Gifts from Surplus Income for IHT purposes
D Bergman
Posted: 22 August 2021 13:11:07(UTC)
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This topic was mentioned in a different thread and as I have been using this (legal) IHT avoidance scheme for 10 years, I offered to explain how I do it to those who are interested.

Apologies in advance for the length of this post.

Useful general information about gifts from surplus income can be found in various websites; a fairly clear example is: https://www.gabyhardwick...s-out-of-surplus-income and also: https://www.tilney.co.uk...fts-from-surplus-income
It can be useful to check HMRC: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-...ce-tax-manual/ihtm14255

Briefly, to qualify for IHT exemption, gifts must be regular or planned to be regular – a single gift would not warrant exemption. A letter to the beneficiary would be useful; in my case I wrote such a letter to my son before his marriage, explaining that I wished to make an annual gift to him of about £15K as my income exceeded my expenditure and expressing the wish that he use my gift to buy an ISA every year.

I then drew up a spreadsheet with income and expenditure, with columns for each fiscal year since setup.

The income rows included: self-employment income, State Pension, P2P interest, rent from let property, dividends from GIA, ISA dividends, VCT dividends, bank interest, bonds interest. It is important to note that only income, not capital gains, can be included.

These were totalled and the applicable income tax deducted to get to the total disposable income.
The expenditure rows detail: Utilities (split into water rates, gas & elec, telecommunications), council tax, regular pension contributions, car insurance/tax/parking permit, car repairs, petrol & repairs, food, clothing, household goods, cleaner, holidays & general travel, allocation for house repairs, entertainment, general gifts. I have stated where appropriate that expenses are estimated.

The final lines of the spreadsheet give the annual totals of net income less expenditure to show the surplus income, and then the annual gift (which does not have to be the same every year). To be on the safe side, I have never given more than 50% of my stated surplus income each year, thus helping to ensure that my scheme will be acceptable.

It took a bit of time to set up, but once done it has been very easy to continue. HMRC do not specify quite as many details of expenditure as I have included, but I’ve worked on the principle that the more details the better!

None of this has to be reported to HMRC while I am alive, but my executers will need to fill out the following form:
https://assets.publishin...917890/IHT403-05-20.pdf Page 8 on the form is the relevant page.

I print out a copy of the current spreadsheet every year and deposit it with my will and other documents.
I can honestly say that after setting it up, updating the spreadsheet takes a few hours per year.

If there are any queries I’ll be happy to try and answer them.
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CSJ
Posted: 22 August 2021 15:15:24(UTC)
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I have done more or less exactly the same thing and have a detailed spreadsheet showing all my various incomes, expenditures etc and a column showing all my gifts over the last 10 years (10K each Xmas to each of my two children).

I wish I knew of instances where someone has done this successfully (and unsuccessfully!).

In particular, unsuccessful ones would be particularly pertinent so that one could modify their records to satisfy HMRC.
3 users thanked CSJ for this post.
NoMoreKickingCans on 22/08/2021(UTC), D Bergman on 22/08/2021(UTC), mcinnes on 23/08/2021(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 22 August 2021 15:16:28(UTC)
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Thank you.
‘Household Bills’ seems incredibly broad on the IHT form. Must cover everything from food, clothes, heating, mobile phone, etc.

How does this work for a couple where many costs are shared - presumably gifts from income have to be specific to an individual based on that individuals income and their individual costs - and with joint costs halved ?

Also makes me wonder exactly how attribution of costs works for a couple e.g. If one pays the mortgage, but the other pays the heating bill - can you halve both or must you assign them rigoursly to the named payee or bank account holder ?
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D Bergman on 22/08/2021(UTC)
Jimmy Page
Posted: 22 August 2021 15:20:31(UTC)
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Thanks very much. The recent mention of this generated a lightbulb moment for me - we have been doing this for a few years, but I hadn't even considered the fact that dividend income being paid into our ISAs and GIAs, nor indeed from VCTs would qualify.
On reflection, it seems if not obvious, then certainly likely, but I hadn't got beyond income from pensions and (then) BTL.

it probably won't affect the amount we are gifting, but inclusion of these income streams will certainly increase the buffer between excess and gifted.

I'd be interested to hear of any practical experience of how things panned out after death. A report from beyond the grave may be a little too much to ask, but maybe third party info.?

Anyway, i've learnt already, so thanks.

2 users thanked Jimmy Page for this post.
NoMoreKickingCans on 22/08/2021(UTC), D Bergman on 22/08/2021(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 22 August 2021 15:53:39(UTC)
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CSJ;182868 wrote:
I have done more or less exactly the same thing and have a detailed spreadsheet showing all my various incomes, expenditures etc and a column showing all my gifts over the last 10 years (10K each Xmas to each of my two children).

I wish I knew of instances where someone has done this successfully (and unsuccessfully!).

In particular, unsuccessful ones would be particularly pertinent so that one could modify their records to satisfy HMRC.


Al I can say is that several years ago, when I had an HMRC inspection, I asked the inspector what his opinion was of my scheme and he told me it seemed fine to him. This was, however, an informal conversation.

I think that leaving a gap between the surplus income and the amount given should help ensure that the scheme is approved.
paul armstrong
Posted: 22 August 2021 15:54:20(UTC)
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We have just finished probate for my father in law who ' informally' gave gifts up to 60k in aggregate from his judgement of surplus income. No formal statement of intent and gift amounts varied. HMRC have accepted our computations but filling out the form going back over the relevant years was tedious and needed access to bank statements and bills.
Thought we might get more pushback but there you go. His income was about double the gifted amount.
3 users thanked paul armstrong for this post.
D Bergman on 22/08/2021(UTC), Jimmy Page on 22/08/2021(UTC), Guest on 23/08/2021(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 22 August 2021 16:03:15(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;182869 wrote:
Thank you.
‘Household Bills’ seems incredibly broad on the IHT form. Must cover everything from food, clothes, heating, mobile phone, etc.

How does this work for a couple where many costs are shared - presumably gifts from income have to be specific to an individual based on that individuals income and their individual costs - and with joint costs halved ?

Also makes me wonder exactly how attribution of costs works for a couple e.g. If one pays the mortgage, but the other pays the heating bill - can you halve both or must you assign them rigoursly to the named payee or bank account holder ?


The issue of shared expenses (and split incomes) also bothered me.
In our case my wife's income covers her personal expenses (clothes, etc), her university fees and expenses, and most of our gifts to grandchildren, etc. I therefore only included my income and expenses (which are both considerably higher than hers) so I don't think this will be a problem.

I forgot to mention in my original post that I consulted a financial planner when I set up this scheme; while I do not use one for investments, I think this is a case for doing so.

D Bergman
Posted: 22 August 2021 16:07:43(UTC)
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paul armstrong;182873 wrote:
We have just finished probate for my father in law who ' informally' gave gifts up to 60k in aggregate from his judgement of surplus income. No formal statement of intent and gift amounts varied. HMRC have accepted our computations but filling out the form going back over the relevant years was tedious and needed access to bank statements and bills.
Thought we might get more pushback but there you go. His income was about double the gifted amount.


Thank you for your comment.
It confirms what I have suspected - that if the scheme is reasonable you can get it past HMRC, but it will make things much easier if you leave documentary evidence for your executers and beneficiaries.
paul armstrong
Posted: 22 August 2021 17:30:52(UTC)
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'It confirms what I have suspected - that if the scheme is reasonable you can get it past HMRC, but it will make things much easier if you leave documentary evidence for your executers and beneficiaries.
Back to top'

Indeedy. We had to go back 6 years. Bank statements, savings and investment transactions, bills etc etc.
Any net withdrawals from savings or investments over a year is a big red flag.

You have to establish what amounts to normal expenditure which goes beyond just living expenses, ie holidays and anything establishing a pattern of expenditure even if a 'luxury'. I thought we were pushing our luck but seems not. Having a clear margin is likely key.
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Jimmy Page on 23/08/2021(UTC)
Money Spider
Posted: 23 August 2021 07:51:57(UTC)
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About ten years ago I became LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney) for each of my parents. It was clear that a plan was needed to limit the growth in capital and to also distribute excess income. So, I proposed a plan to them which involved: annual exempt gifts, gifts from income and potentially exempt transfers (PETs).

Sadly my father died within a couple of years. However, I did the administration of his will which was relatively simple (my mother being his sole beneficiary). So I had to complete the IHT403 forms and process. It was all relatively straightforward (this doesn't necessarily mean simple!). I apportioned joint household expenses 50:50 until my father was admitted to a home (apportioned 0:100 after that). I added a note to the IHT403 submission to HMRC and they were satisfied. Up to about 99% of his excess income was gifted and HMRC did not object to anything. So, if you are honest and reasonable, then I don't think you should have a problem.

What I have been doing every since for my mother is:
1. I complete her self-assessment so I have all income details. I also have an extra sheet in her Excel workbook for 'untaxed income' (ISAs etc). There is a separate Excel workbook for each tax year.

2. I replicated the form on IHT403, page 6, (Gifts from Income) in a separate spreadsheet which is has draft figures for the current tax year and 'final' figures after submission of her self-assessment. There is a separate spreadsheet for each year to capture the details of expenditure in more detail, particularly utility bills etc which then feeds the summary sheet. For things like supermarket expenditure (food, household consumables etc. I just allocate a monthly amount). As long as its reasonable/believable I think you will be OK.

3. I also replicated the form on page 3 of IHT403 (Gifts made within the 7 years before death) in a spreadsheet. This is where annual exempt gifts and PETs are declared. Gifts from Income are also declared here (I declare them exempt as such in column B)

4. I create a written declaration to HMRC (signed by my mother) at the end of each tax year stating the amount of gifts given from income and to whom they were made and the recipient's relation to the giver (they are family members). It also states that it is my mother's intention to continue this practice for future years. I hold this on file.

It is the IHT403 form upon which you are judged by HMRC, so I calculate/record everything around that.

Like most things (SIPP/Drawdown planning etc.) if you create a framework and a process to plan and then keep records it's not too onerous - you simply update the spreadsheets etc each 3/6/12 months as is appropriate to your circumstances.
HTH
6 users thanked Money Spider for this post.
jeffian on 23/08/2021(UTC), D Bergman on 23/08/2021(UTC), Tim D on 23/08/2021(UTC), Gasman on 23/08/2021(UTC), Jimmy Page on 23/08/2021(UTC), paul armstrong on 23/08/2021(UTC)
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