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Climate Change - The Agenda
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Jonathan Friend
Posted: 18 July 2023 13:42:50(UTC)
#209

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
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Even measuring temperatures and recording their changes over time is a lot less straight forward and certain than people might think. What types of thermometer? Where are they positioned? How many are there?

Next to some baking hot asphalt at the end of a runway where jets are taking off and landing? Within a built up area or alongside a load of industry? Orbiting the earth? Up a mountain somewhere in the southern hemisphere.

150 years ago there were hardly any thermometers at all compared to today, they were a lot less accurate, large swathes of the earth had next to no coverage, and recording methods were more haphazard.

Everywhere you turn with climate science, there seem to be shortcomings, leaps of faith and guesswork. Most people don't question it and that's precisely what is expected of them.

I usually assume, when a group of people are telling me not to ask questions, and labelling me when I do so, that they must be hiding something. That doesn't sit right with me, whereas others seem happy to take what they're told at face value. Maybe that's the really defining difference between people in our time?
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Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC), Dexi on 18/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 18/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 18/07/2023(UTC), Steve U on 18/07/2023(UTC)
Jimmy Page
Posted: 18 July 2023 13:43:40(UTC)
#175

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Zach F;273537 wrote:
Steve U;273457 wrote:
Zach F;273371 wrote:
Steve U;273366 wrote:
Rather than the BBC, I prefer to listen to people like this about climate change


Quote:
as soon as someone tells you the planet's warming, the reply you give is "since when"


https://twitter.com/mark...678818973830246409?s=20


full speech here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txQcX0fm5bs


Quote:
Professor Ian Plimer is Australia’s best-known geologist. He is Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Melbourne, where he was Professor and Head of Earth Sciences (1991-2005) after serving at the University of Newcastle (1985-1991) as Professor and Head of Geology.


no doubt you won't be able to listen to him for much longer though


Personally I prefer to listen to someone who don’t have a vested interest in the matter; pilmers links to the mining industry make me think he may well just be a little unbiased…. But I guess what ever reinforces your own world view is the order of the day.


So who is that Zach ?


NASA? The Royal Society? Or take your pick of any leading university? Google’s a really handy tool to inform yourself and debunk the bullshit, Plimers been called out plenty of times and his arguements don’t hold up very well under scrutiny.

But let’s be frank, replying to this thread with my point of view is a complete waste of time; you’ve got a bloke in his 70/80s using buzz words like a teenager; a seasoned forum troll on his 5th?(?) account, and a chap who is apparently a investing guru who can time the market but somehow has a pot of 500ish k without having kids and living through the greatest bull run in history????! to think any of these chumps are able to offer anything than vitriol is the height of naïveté so I’m not going to bother. PS Steve none of this paragraph is aimed at you.

A NASA scientist-

"Peter Kalmus
@ClimateHuman
Most people STILL don’t know what peril they are in. This will be the coolest summer for the rest of your life, and that shouldn’t be just a meme - it should be actually terrifying. The ONLY path out of this heat nightmare is to end fossil fuels ASAP."

Yep, ok...
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Jonathan Friend
Posted: 18 July 2023 14:04:14(UTC)
#210

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The Chinese government don't seem to have got the memo. And strangely, none of the alarmists ever mention China or India, or the other countries building fleets of coal fired power plants. It doesn't seem to count when other countries burn coal. Yet another confusing element of the narrative.
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Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 18/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 18/07/2023(UTC), Keith Cobby on 23/07/2023(UTC)
SSJ
Posted: 18 July 2023 16:23:18(UTC)
#203

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ANDREW FOSTER;273571 wrote:

(One cannot measure a temperature change relative to Absolute Zero, that is an arbitrary baseline)

I can't think of anything less arbitrary than Absolute Zero.
It wasn't invented by climate careerists, you know ;)
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Tony Peterson on 18/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC)
Tug Boat
Posted: 18 July 2023 16:39:56(UTC)
#206

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SSJ;273616 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;273571 wrote:

(One cannot measure a temperature change relative to Absolute Zero, that is an arbitrary baseline)

I can't think of anything less arbitrary than Absolute Zero.
It wasn't invented by climate careerists, you know ;)



That is an interesting one. No matter what scale you use or where you start it, the reference point is -273C or 0K, you can’t get colder. It is the baseline. It is the only thing we measure temperature changes against.

It’s like Avagadro’s number or Plancks constant : a defining reference point. Hope I spelled them right.
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Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC), Tony Peterson on 18/07/2023(UTC), SSJ on 18/07/2023(UTC), Keith Cobby on 23/07/2023(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 18 July 2023 16:47:53(UTC)
#204

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SSJ;273616 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;273571 wrote:

(One cannot measure a temperature change relative to Absolute Zero, that is an arbitrary baseline)

I can't think of anything less arbitrary than Absolute Zero.
It wasn't invented by climate careerists, you know ;)


Never in its history has the Earth been at Absolute Zero.

A percentage change has no meaning in this debate. The only useful thing is "Two Celsius change"

But it's a digression. Many people believe that a tiny change in the make up of the atmosphere will destroy humankind/planet/ecosystem.

When we know that CO2 has varied far more dramatically over the Earths history.

...and they can't even bring themselves to question that.

But hey look at the "science". Look at CO2 concentration vs global temperature. Here:-

https://www.climate.gov/...-every-year-hotter-last

Look at how between 1850 and 1918ish CO2 was falling and yet the global temperature was rising.

Doesn't that strike you as odd? Discuss...

Then take a look at this...

https://www.researchgate...blue-CO2_fig2_348167043

And ask why they have cut off the pre 1920 data from the chart....
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5 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC), Steve U on 18/07/2023(UTC), Dexi on 18/07/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 18/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 19/07/2023(UTC)
Tug Boat
Posted: 18 July 2023 16:56:56(UTC)
#211

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Nothing anywhere is at absolute zero. Even the coldest space is a degree above
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Tug Boat
Posted: 18 July 2023 17:25:21(UTC)
#212

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“But it's a digression. Many people believe that a tiny change in the make up of the atmosphere will destroy humankind/planet/ecosystem. “

After suffering chemistry at Sheffield University, I can say that tiny changes can have a huge effect. Some common examples are catalytic reactions or surfactant chemistry. Enzymes are the same. Hormones in the body have a very low concentration, but do stuff.

It’s the same with physical chemistry, the way molecules use heat, especially dipolar molecules is interesting.

I’m not a climate change zealot, but small amounts of stuff can have a big effect.

There are other influences, but carbon dioxide and others are not good.

Don’t start on the water from NASA cos that’s bollocks if you look at the eutectic.
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ANDREW FOSTER on 18/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 18/07/2023(UTC), chazza on 19/07/2023(UTC)
Steve U
Posted: 18 July 2023 17:59:53(UTC)
#205

Joined: 30/08/2017(UTC)
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ANDREW FOSTER;273632 wrote:
SSJ;273616 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;273571 wrote:

(One cannot measure a temperature change relative to Absolute Zero, that is an arbitrary baseline)

I can't think of anything less arbitrary than Absolute Zero.
It wasn't invented by climate careerists, you know ;)


Never in its history has the Earth been at Absolute Zero.

A percentage change has no meaning in this debate. The only useful thing is "Two Celsius change"

But it's a digression. Many people believe that a tiny change in the make up of the atmosphere will destroy humankind/planet/ecosystem.

When we know that CO2 has varied far more dramatically over the Earths history.

...and they can't even bring themselves to question that.

But hey look at the "science". Look at CO2 concentration vs global temperature. Here:-

https://www.climate.gov/...-every-year-hotter-last

Look at how between 1850 and 1918ish CO2 was falling and yet the global temperature was rising.

Doesn't that strike you as odd? Discuss...

Then take a look at this...

https://www.researchgate...blue-CO2_fig2_348167043

And ask why they have cut off the pre 1920 data from the chart....


for the same reason they are doing this
https://twitter.com/joan...1680983113915146241?s=20
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Guest on 19/07/2023(UTC)
Steve U
Posted: 18 July 2023 18:10:18(UTC)
#213

Joined: 30/08/2017(UTC)
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