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Climate Change - The Agenda
what me worry?
Posted: 28 July 2023 18:05:25(UTC)

Joined: 20/11/2007(UTC)
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Neil Oliver, my new hero. Check him out.
5 users thanked what me worry? for this post.
DIY Investing on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC)
what me worry?
Posted: 28 July 2023 18:16:00(UTC)

Joined: 20/11/2007(UTC)
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Was thanked: 1139 time(s) in 435 post(s)
ANDREW FOSTER;274612 wrote:
chazza;274603 wrote:


ULEZ is designed to tackle persistent poor air quality in London (including outer London) by discouraging the use of the oldest and most polluting road vehicles; ULEZ is designed to tackle climate change.

If you think ULEZ is disproportionate, I wonder how much value you attach to the health and well-being of those people who live on or near the most polluted roads.


I fully accept that air quality will be improved by reducing vehicle emissions. But here is the thing...

If emissions are that bad, then just ban the most polluting vehicles. End of. That actually resolves the issue. Because paying £12 does not make any vehicle emissions suddenly harmless.

Start at the highest end with vehicles doing, say, 400g+ CO2 per km. That gets the fat BMW's the Chelsea Tractors, the Porsches off the road. And these vehicles are the most polluting.

Then shift to 300g/km....and so on. Work the way down the scale over a few years, hitting the poorest with the Fiestas and Pandas last. And giving them most time to upgrade vehicle, largely by natural wastage.

This affects the wealthy first, and most of all. The councillors. The Bosses. The Policymakers. The MPs. And these people cannot simply buy their way round the problem and continue to pollute, while Jack in his white van has significant dent made in this livelihood.

Instead it's hitting the poorest first with the oldest vehicles and the lowest Cat ratings but not necessarily the highest emissions (For example a ten year old Cat 3 980cc Fiesta is likely to have a lower CO2/km than a brand new 3 litre Cat 6 Porche)

Its no accident it is being done like this. Its deliberately creating a society where personal transport becomes the privilege of the rich, to whom £12.50 a day is nothing. And what's more, is that it's Labour doing this.... Quite bizarre really.

So for me the issue isn't low emissions, it's the methodology of targeting the poorest first that stinks.



So Londoners, especially the young, cause of death and illness is poor air quality? So when mum and dad can't get to work cos they can't affort a new car and the kids die of starvation that will be okay will it? And if I do pay £12.50 a day who will pay?, my customers thats who and that could mean you cos if you need a builder ( if you are weathy or not) then it will go on the price.
Basically its Sactimonious bull***t from the spoutings of a pompous little man. Of course it has nothing to do with raising cash for more vanity projects, I'm sure!!!?

NB if you can get the USA, China, India and most of Asia onboard with this then we might have a conversation. Ooh, is that this weeks new coal fired power station Mr. Jinping, looks lovely.
4 users thanked what me worry? for this post.
Jonathan Friend on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), Newbie on 29/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 28 July 2023 18:27:48(UTC)

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
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So the politicians in our country decided to push diesel without thinking it through and here we are !
Now they completely disregard the fact the contribution to the so called climate problem by the UK is insignificant and yet they press the hardest hit in our society for cash for which they get no benefit and does little to reduce the emissions itself but lines the pockets of politicians and their sponsors.
So who do these policy makers serve (apart from their own interests of course)

And yet we advocate a system of democracy where we have to choose between the immoral, incompetent, ignorant and often intellectually challenged (by that I mean common sense wise and not academic).

What am I missing
5 users thanked Newbie for this post.
Jonathan Friend on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC), Dexi on 29/07/2023(UTC)
Steve U
Posted: 28 July 2023 19:32:36(UTC)

Joined: 30/08/2017(UTC)
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ANDREW FOSTER;274612 wrote:
chazza;274603 wrote:


ULEZ is designed to tackle persistent poor air quality in London (including outer London) by discouraging the use of the oldest and most polluting road vehicles; ULEZ is designed to tackle climate change.

If you think ULEZ is disproportionate, I wonder how much value you attach to the health and well-being of those people who live on or near the most polluted roads.


I fully accept that air quality will be improved by reducing vehicle emissions. But here is the thing...

If emissions are that bad, then just ban the most polluting vehicles. End of. That actually resolves the issue. Because paying £12 does not make any vehicle emissions suddenly harmless.

Start at the highest end with vehicles doing, say, 400g+ CO2 per km. That gets the fat BMW's the Chelsea Tractors, the Porsches off the road. And these vehicles are the most polluting.

Then shift to 300g/km....and so on. Work the way down the scale over a few years, hitting the poorest with the Fiestas and Pandas last. And giving them most time to upgrade vehicle, largely by natural wastage.

This affects the wealthy first, and most of all. The councillors. The Bosses. The Policymakers. The MPs. And these people cannot simply buy their way round the problem and continue to pollute, while Jack in his white van has significant dent made in this livelihood.

Instead it's hitting the poorest first with the oldest vehicles and the lowest Cat ratings but not necessarily the highest emissions (For example a ten year old Cat 3 980cc Fiesta is likely to have a lower CO2/km than a brand new 3 litre Cat 6 Porche)

Its no accident it is being done like this. Its deliberately creating a society where personal transport becomes the privilege of the rich, to whom £12.50 a day is nothing. And what's more, is that it's Labour doing this.... Quite bizarre really.

So for me the issue isn't low emissions, it's the methodology of targeting the poorest first that stinks.



great post
5 users thanked Steve U for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC), what me worry? on 29/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 30/07/2023(UTC)
guantou
Posted: 28 July 2023 19:49:10(UTC)

Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,039

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An unregulated Thames ship spews out 700 times more pollution than a highly regulated diesel truck.
Thames cruise ships use 154 gallons of fuel per hour in their unregulated and unfiltered engines.
Thames ferrys emit up to 100 times the level of sulphur oxide gases permitted for cars, vans and buses.
Last years 4 million tonnes of inter-terminal Thames cargo produced the same pollution as 300,000 trucks.

London will never achieve ultra low emissions whilever Thames shipping remains unregulated.

Over to your mayor khan.
9 users thanked guantou for this post.
Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 28/07/2023(UTC), Taltunes on 28/07/2023(UTC), Newbie on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC), chazza on 29/07/2023(UTC), Dexi on 29/07/2023(UTC), what me worry? on 29/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 30/07/2023(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 28 July 2023 19:54:57(UTC)

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 1,282

Thanks: 1229 times
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what me, worry?;274614 wrote:

So Londoners, especially the young, cause of death and illness is poor air quality? So when mum and dad can't get to work cos they can't affort a new car and the kids die of starvation that will be okay will it? And if I do pay £12.50 a day who will pay?, my customers thats who and that could mean you cos if you need a builder ( if you are weathy or not) then it will go on the price.
Basically its Sactimonious bull***t from the spoutings of a pompous little man. Of course it has nothing to do with raising cash for more vanity projects, I'm sure!!!?

NB if you can get the USA, China, India and most of Asia onboard with this then we might have a conversation. Ooh, is that this weeks new coal fired power station Mr. Jinping looks lovely.


🤣🤣🤣

Brilliant!
4 users thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC), what me worry? on 29/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 30/07/2023(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 28 July 2023 21:13:37(UTC)

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 1,282

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I mean, this is Sadiq Khan we're talking about. Just because he says it is about saving the climate and lives doesn't mean these are the main reasons.

London has experienced epidemic and record breaking levels of knife and other violent crime during his tenure as Mayor. That's a lot of murder and life changing injuries. Looting and armed robbery are also at record levels. But he cares about "saving lives" through ULEZ? ... Right.

There was his recent unveiling of the half a million quid statue to Slavery in London: 'Sadiq Khan said that legacy of Britain's role in the slave trade is still felt today...' this guy's parents came here from Pakistan. It is the third worst country in the world - today - for slavery. Great Britain took it upon itself to banish slavery from the world 200 years ago.

He was staunchly against Uber for some reason. Perhaps because his supporters are more likely to be black cab drivers? Screw the fare paying public.

And then there's ULEZ. Waste of time and money, hits the poorest worst, won't save health or the world, London will get worse and worse regardless on current trends.
6 users thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
guantou on 28/07/2023(UTC), Jimmy Page on 28/07/2023(UTC), Guest on 29/07/2023(UTC), Dexi on 29/07/2023(UTC), what me worry? on 29/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 30/07/2023(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 29 July 2023 00:13:29(UTC)

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,818

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Jonathan Friend;274627 wrote:
what me, worry?;274614 wrote:

So Londoners, especially the young, cause of death and illness is poor air quality? So when mum and dad can't get to work cos they can't affort a new car and the kids die of starvation that will be okay will it? And if I do pay £12.50 a day who will pay?, my customers thats who and that could mean you cos if you need a builder ( if you are weathy or not) then it will go on the price.
Basically its Sactimonious bull***t from the spoutings of a pompous little man. Of course it has nothing to do with raising cash for more vanity projects, I'm sure!!!?

NB if you can get the USA, China, India and most of Asia onboard with this then we might have a conversation. Ooh, is that this weeks new coal fired power station Mr. Jinping looks lovely.


🤣🤣🤣

Brilliant!

China is on board, just not in the way we think. It supports and pushes the climate change agenda in many ways apart from reducing any emissions. That coal fired power station is going to help produce the solar panels (for which the primary target market is the climate brigade) and should lead to net zero effect in say a couple of centuries (by that time a new theme will have emerged so no one will care or even better new technologies and science will have wider data points to suggest that all this is the norm) - a mention also needs to go out to Greta Thunberg who supports the efforts and saves a packet on marketing and promotion.

As for China and India being great polluters - What did the west expect when they decided to farm out all the production and labour to the east - daisies and blue skies.
3 users thanked Newbie for this post.
Jimmy Page on 29/07/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 29/07/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 30/07/2023(UTC)
andy mac
Posted: 29 July 2023 06:56:27(UTC)

Joined: 12/02/2016(UTC)
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When I worked the car I leased was supposed to be the greenest diesel
VW 10 years later paid me £1500+ for cheating
That car still gives me 50+miles to the gallon
Diesel fuel prices used to be less that petrol then developed a price difference of 10p/l
It is only in the last month that difference has disappeared

I dont take it to Birmingham or London I use my other car usually driven by my wife

The diesel has done 120K miles and is probably good for another 30K (hopefully)
So I have not had to buy another car reducing my footprint

Yesterday in the afternoon I went to the pub with some other gammons and we all arrived in good time. No cars were used
After the event we all went home no cars were used but I along with others used our bus pass
The bus was packed with oldies ( can I say that !)
The venue was full of young people certainly younger than me - how did they all get there and back

My final point is as older cars are taxed directly or indirectly off the road where will the cities get their extra income from
Call me cynical but I would suspect that the emission levels will change to ensure the coffers are kept full

Have a good day

2 users thanked andy mac for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 29/07/2023(UTC), what me worry? on 29/07/2023(UTC)
Taltunes
Posted: 29 July 2023 07:08:09(UTC)

Joined: 15/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 751

andy mac;274642 wrote:
When I worked the car I leased was supposed to be the greenest diesel
VW 10 years later paid me £1500+ for cheating
That car still gives me 50+miles to the gallon
Diesel fuel prices used to be less that petrol then developed a price difference of 10p/l
It is only in the last month that difference has disappeared

I dont take it to Birmingham or London I use my other car usually driven by my wife

The diesel has done 120K miles and is probably good for another 30K (hopefully)
So I have not had to buy another car reducing my footprint

Yesterday in the afternoon I went to the pub with some other gammons and we all arrived in good time. No cars were used
After the event we all went home no cars were used but I along with others used our bus pass
The bus was packed with oldies ( can I say that !)
The venue was full of young people certainly younger than me - how did they all get there and back

My final point is as older cars are taxed directly or indirectly off the road where will the cities get their extra income from
Call me cynical but I would suspect that the emission levels will change to ensure the coffers are kept full

Have a good day



Did vw cheat on the mileage they claimed or just the emissions? (Genuine question - I don’t drive) if they cheated on the mileage I can see why you were due compensation but if they just cheated on the emissions then personally I would have thought the money should have gone to e.g. the NHS to pay for the treatment of emissions related illnesses.
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