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Roll Over: NS&I index-linked bonds.
Easyrider
Posted: 09 November 2022 19:43:56(UTC)
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I have about £140k in NS&I "bonds" and the maximum in Premium bonds.
https://www.thisismoney....6-1312844319.1640971877
I used to get about £2k a year in premium bond prices, mainly £25 and £50 prizes, but much less now.
Where I live £25 can buy a nice lunch for 2 excluding drinks and tip.
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Ian Eccles on 09/11/2022(UTC)
Ian Eccles
Posted: 09 November 2022 19:51:30(UTC)
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Big fan of Ernie although crap investment but a fun investment, when you win a prize, it makes your day, plus the money is easy to get back if you need it .
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Easyrider on 09/11/2022(UTC), Mostly Retired on 10/11/2022(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 09 November 2022 20:02:28(UTC)
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IMO all this rollover nonsense should not be allowed.

In what way is it possibly ‘fair’ to say someone that bought index-linked bonds 10 or 15 years ago can roll them forward when everyone else has no option to buy them. It is ridiculous discrimination and roll over should not be allowed.
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Fife Clive on 09/11/2022(UTC), Tim D on 09/11/2022(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 09 November 2022 20:13:50(UTC)
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I’d also say I have a small amount of money in an NSI bond which was ‘automatically rolled over’ into a new bond without my permission or authorisation. This is government robbery. I have never come across any bank that didn’t just end the bond at the end of the term. I suspect HMG are acting illegally by rolling such bonds over without authority from the account holder. So of course I am being robbed to help HMG pay 12% interest to another bunch of early baby boomers that grabbed everything for themselves and then pulled up the drawbridge.

No doubt by the time I need a new hip they will no longer be available on the NHS. All the early baby boomers will have once again enjoyed a benefit which has then been cancelled and withheld from others.
Newbie
Posted: 09 November 2022 20:16:00(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;247152 wrote:
IMO all this rollover nonsense should not be allowed.

In what way is it possibly ‘fair’ to say someone that bought index-linked bonds 10 or 15 years ago can roll them forward when everyone else has no option to buy them. It is ridiculous discrimination and roll over should not be allowed.

Why is it unfair ?

If they bought a lot, when equities were all the rage doing 15% but they decided to go for a 2% return in the view that inflation will be back at some point in the future, then how is that any different taking a position in a newly listed company (e.g) Amazon, Coco-Cola, Google, Royal Mail etc etc and then waiting 10-20 years and not selling !!

What about long term govt issued bonds - should people who bought say 12% ones at during 70's and 80's redeem them after the GFC because they were no longer available and those who had them were unwilling to sell them ?

Those with IL Certs (me included) accepted the low returns for over a decade whilst our equity, property, and earnings grew at exceptional rates. Now the latter 3 are falling behind inflation and IL is winning should I not be allowed to have them.
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Easyrider on 09/11/2022(UTC), Apostate on 09/11/2022(UTC), Mostly Retired on 10/11/2022(UTC), Mr Helpful on 10/11/2022(UTC), OmegaMale on 10/11/2022(UTC), Historyman on 11/11/2022(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 09 November 2022 20:45:36(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;247152 wrote:
IMO all this rollover nonsense should not be allowed.

In what way is it possibly ‘fair’ to say someone that bought index-linked bonds 10 or 15 years ago can roll them forward when everyone else has no option to buy them. It is ridiculous discrimination and roll over should not be allowed.


You had the option to buy them too.

But the reason it should be allowed is if it is stated as such in the T&C's when people bought them.

I would not expect a government to go back on it's agreed contract. No..wait....
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Thrugelmir on 09/11/2022(UTC), Mostly Retired on 10/11/2022(UTC)
Easyrider
Posted: 09 November 2022 20:54:55(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;247153 wrote:
I’d also say I have a small amount of money in an NSI bond which was ‘automatically rolled over’ into a new bond without my permission or authorisation. This is government robbery. I have never come across any bank that didn’t just end the bond at the end of the term. I suspect HMG are acting illegally by rolling such bonds over without authority from the account holder. So of course I am being robbed to help HMG pay 12% interest to another bunch of early baby boomers that grabbed everything for themselves and then pulled up the drawbridge.

No doubt by the time I need a new hip they will no longer be available on the NHS. All the early baby boomers will have once again enjoyed a benefit which has then been cancelled and withheld from others.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Every time one of my NS&I certificates is due to be repayed I have been contacted by NS&I and asked what I want to do.
Do I want to cash it in, roll it over or put it into a different product?
They also state that if you don't reply they will roll it over for you, which I have found helpful.
Seems fair enough to me.
When I was a child the infant mortality rate was huge because of diseases such as TB, scarlet fever, pneumonia and diptheria.
Most people worked seven days a week, had two weeks annual leave, used outside toilets and did not have internal heating except for one coal fire.
When I was in the fever hospital children were dying around me like flies. Fortunately I survived.
You don't know how lucky you are.

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ANDREW FOSTER on 09/11/2022(UTC), Historyman on 11/11/2022(UTC)
Fife Clive
Posted: 09 November 2022 21:08:37(UTC)
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Personally I dislike that NS&I has been used as a political tool to give preferential terms to those fortunate enough to have money to save.

It’s near impossible to argue that it’s a good use of public funds to raise money from retail savers (and provide the expensive admin infrastructure) at a higher rate of interest than raising the same from the gilt markets. Especially since the returns offered on these products are also tax free, and also come with a valuable option (the right but not the obligation) to perpetually roll-over on maturity.

I dare say if these were tradeable instruments they would change hands for well above face value, which shows you the scale of subsidy being given. At least they did change the terms from RPI to CPI, even for those rolling over.

Personally I have £15k worth, bought many moons ago at the behest of my father in law. They are a lot like the IBM shares in The Money Game anecdote, though. So attractive one must never sell them, which in many ways makes them a rather pointless curio.
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Bulldog Drummond on 09/11/2022(UTC), NoMoreKickingCans on 09/11/2022(UTC), Tim D on 09/11/2022(UTC), Guest on 10/11/2022(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 09 November 2022 22:54:58(UTC)
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Quote:
You don't know how lucky you are

Not quite sure what that has to do with HMG policy fairness. A bit like saying - you’ve got access to antibiotics so count yourself lucky and stop complaining about politicians lining their own nests on the back of public office. It isn’t relevant.

And they didn’t automatically roll over bonds without the owners authority previously. They chose to change their policy to act without the owners authority. Oddly they did this at exactly the time that interest rates were at their minimum. As far as I am concerned it is an illegal act. If I took your money and invested it at zero return on your behalf and without your permission or authority, would you be happy. I’d like to see it challenged in court because it cannot be legal to take control of someone else’s money without any express authority. It is what I call theft.
Mostly Retired
Posted: 10 November 2022 09:09:45(UTC)
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I purchased the NS&I IL notes from 2004 until they were no longer issued. I looked hard at the trade off of return versus "safety" and read the bond terms carefully. Whilst I was momentarily disappointed at the shift from RPI to CPI, I accepted that this was within the terms and kept the investments.

The roll over of maturing bonds was a part of the original contract, there is no concept of "fair" or "unfair" in this at all - it is just the terms of the contract, just as is the tax spared element. The roll over notifications are sent with more than enough notice for me to decide to roll or not.

They are "bedrock" elements of the family balance sheet and as such would not be the first assets to be used to fund care/hips/eyes/grandchild etc. They are about 17% of the overall book.

I accepted low returns relative to equities for quite a long time, because I wanted a) Tax efficient savings, b) inflation shielding and c) highest level capital security. They have done their job so far and whilst the return is not at all stellar, it suits my personal views of risk/return.
8 users thanked Mostly Retired for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 10/11/2022(UTC), Apostate on 10/11/2022(UTC), Mr Helpful on 10/11/2022(UTC), Newbie on 10/11/2022(UTC), Thrugelmir on 10/11/2022(UTC), Lindisfarne on 10/11/2022(UTC), Tim D on 10/11/2022(UTC), Martina on 12/11/2022(UTC)
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