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Post Autumn 2022 Budget strategy: CGT, Dividends
MBA MBA
Posted: 08 December 2022 15:39:32(UTC)
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What are people planning post the Budget and the significant increase in CGT and dividend tax?
A year ago i opened a joint trading account (outside ISA/SIPP) in mine and wife’s name to save more outside of ISA and SIPP. I have religiously ensured I stayed below the levels before one has to report on one’s self assessment ie below the dividend and CGT and disposal allowance.

I have always avoided hiring an accountant and dont feel i can understand the tax system enough to have to accurately report if i breach any of the taxes or disposal allowance.

My choices are I think, i) hire an accountant ii) divest the amounts I have invested so I dont come anywhere near creating a reporting liability.

I’m also going to use the trading account for what little i invest in PE ITs and Gold and low yield investments . I’m almost minded to consider investing in things like Tory Trojan or fundsmith given they suck up most of the income in charges,

Also ITs seem more attractive as there’s none of this worrying about whether a dividend is Uk or foreign and which section to put it on on the self assessment.

Please do share what you’re planning.
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Aminatidi on 10/12/2022(UTC)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 08 December 2022 17:23:52(UTC)
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The CGT change is a killer blow for BTL housing fluidity.

Tax-Rule No 1, delay payment of any tax liability as far as possible, to keep monies working

Will maybe part freeze the sale of UK housing, further reducing availability.
Mrs H (a great fan of BTL), is now even less likely to consider any selling.


Other than that, think about charities
maximise ISA tax-sheltered investments before Keir takes the axe to them,
and maybe hang on grimly to other tax-sheltered investments such as NS&I IL Certs.
2 users thanked Mr Helpful for this post.
Newbie on 08/12/2022(UTC), MBA MBA on 08/12/2022(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 08 December 2022 17:46:55(UTC)
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Will be realising some gains / losses in unwrrapped accounts and carry forward losses for future years.
If need be will sell in my account and buy back in wife's account for long term holdings.
Will also stick some in future generations accounts if available (ISA, JISA Pensions etc)
Will also use some monies from sale proceeds for our next years allowances.

With monies that was going to be used from income - will buy physical gold (Kruggers, Sovereigns, Brittania's and maybe jewellery which in the long run can gifted to family members)

ISA and SIPP will have all the income stuff as well as the trading stuff, and CGT allowance reserved in unwrapped stuff.

Am also thinking of using some of the rental income funds to uplift the properties, in readiness for for future. Alternately if there is a big correction, pick up another.

Main thing is it will be a re-structure to navigate tax rules as opposed to taking the tax rules and deciding what to invest in.

On the topic of BTL - everyone is of the thinking that this will bring about sales of BTL, however, there is another way of looking at it; tough economic times, mortgages hiked up after initial periods end, job losses / pay curbs (ie not line with inflation) leading to owner occupiers forced into selling due to rising living, energy, mortgage costs. For good BTL landlords it may be rough patch with lower returns but their main residences intact - so essentially a cashflow problem which if push comes to shove they can sell - thus an option.

The same cannot be said for owner occupiers who, say had a 25% disposable buffer last year with low interest rates and low inflation; when push comes to shove, the major asset (after any savings) and costs is their home, so they will have to sell, but can only sell to a selective audience. When they go to buy they will be met with a wider target audience, people in their position AND BTL investors. This may result in prices in the mid sector not to fall too much resulting in greater demand for renting stock. As the old adage goes the middle ground is where the action is.
3 users thanked Newbie for this post.
MBA MBA on 09/12/2022(UTC), Richard G on 09/12/2022(UTC), Mr Helpful on 09/12/2022(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 08 December 2022 19:22:47(UTC)
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Newbie;250277 wrote:
For good BTL landlords it may be rough patch with lower returns but their main residences intact - so essentially a cashflow problem which if push comes to shove they can sell - thus an option.



Leveraging with debt has always been a double edged sword. As the tide goes out we'll see who has been swimming with no costume on. Going to be considerable pain.
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Mr Helpful on 09/12/2022(UTC)
Rookie Investor
Posted: 08 December 2022 23:58:42(UTC)
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Mr Helpful;250273 wrote:
The CGT change is a killer blow for BTL housing fluidity.

Tax-Rule No 1, delay payment of any tax liability as far as possible, to keep monies working

Will maybe part freeze the sale of UK housing, further reducing availability.
Mrs H (a great fan of BTL), is now even less likely to consider any selling.


Other than that, think about charities
maximise ISA tax-sheltered investments before Keir takes the axe to them,
and maybe hang on grimly to other tax-sheltered investments such as NS&I IL Certs.


Tax-Rule No 0, never let tax alone dictate your investment decisions. Especially when leverage is involved.

Far better IMO to pay up the tax now if better investment opportunties await. Especially if you consider time/stress/effort when dealing with BTL investments. I don't think a 28% tax is punitive enough to deter one from selling.

I am fairly young but I plan to bring forward my BTL sale so I can pay off my residential mortgage as I have left work for good recently. I am not interested anymore in dealing with tenants, estate agents and increasing government regulations (and having to keep up with it). And before all that the returns just aren't worth the risk (I entered the business naively so my fault there).

That means I will leave my c. £400k liquid investments in GIA in place as my personal allowance will free up in a few years meaning I only have to pay dividend tax in the next couple of years.

I will also be locking in a loss for my BTL sale most likely which I can use in future years for reducing my CGT liability. Useful during a period of pretty neglible allowances.

But I still have around £10k CGT allowance to use up this year. Trying to decide what to crystallise without having to report the details. Maybe some of my remaining Nvidia shares I should have sold April 6th? Or fundsmith?
3 users thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
MBA MBA on 09/12/2022(UTC), Mr Helpful on 09/12/2022(UTC), Tim D on 12/12/2022(UTC)
Dexi
Posted: 09 December 2022 02:17:32(UTC)
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Watch out for costs when re-arranging the pf to crystallise gains / losses . A typical mixed lot of ITs might cost c. 0.8 % to sell and again to buy . So , on 100 k`s worth , that`s £ 800 in costs . Paying the CGT would cost £ 1200 , so not a huge saving .
Obviously it`s much cheaper if using ETFs with a much smaller spread and no SD to pay .
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MBA MBA on 09/12/2022(UTC)
MBA MBA
Posted: 10 December 2022 13:32:01(UTC)
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Am I correct in thinking that ITs are much more simply to manage from a self assessment perspective? The dividend is the dividend and one doesn’t need to be concerned whether it goes in the foreign dividend box or not and other issues around units and how they’re accounted for etc
Aminatidi
Posted: 10 December 2022 13:47:28(UTC)
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MBA MBA has the same issue I do I think which is that paying what is due is fine it's simply how easy it is to do that if you're just a normal PAYE type investor who is lucky enough to have enough money that it can't all go in tax wrappers.
1 user thanked Aminatidi for this post.
MBA MBA on 10/12/2022(UTC)
MBA MBA
Posted: 10 December 2022 13:52:00(UTC)
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Aminatidi;250397 wrote:
MBA MBA has the same issue I do I think which is that paying what is due is fine it's simply how easy it is to do that if you're just a normal PAYE type investor who is lucky enough to have enough money that it can't all go in tax wrappers.


Yes, bingo. The fear of being picked out for an audit is not something I want in case I’ve messed up. All those people who think tax complexity and regulation doesn’t put - law abiding - people off. Imagine actually running a proper business and abiding by laws and regulation. Bonkers.
1 user thanked MBA MBA for this post.
Aminatidi on 11/12/2022(UTC)
Dexi
Posted: 11 December 2022 02:57:10(UTC)
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Many ITs are based offshore ( Guernsey , Jersey ) . ETF s are often listed as Ireland based .
There are boxes to tick and bits to fill in on the SA form to account for foreign income . I`m not sure if it makes any difference to the amount of tax due ( declaring as foreign or not ) though .
It`s not too difficult .
More fiddly is dealing with ERI ( excess reportable income ) on ETFs ( unsheltered ) . Why don`t they report this bit , along with the rest of the income ? I`ve no idea , perhaps one of our accounting experts can shed some light on this .
1 user thanked Dexi for this post.
MBA MBA on 11/12/2022(UTC)
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