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Robert D
Posted: 26 January 2023 13:50:27(UTC)
#15

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482

It's OK shutting down tax avoidance schemes - there are far too many of them, costing the country tens of billions of lost tax revenue every year - but the government refuses to tackle the bigger problem of tax evasion. London is known as the London laudromat because of the volume of corrupt UK and international money that is hidden in the capital. I wonder why that is?

Newbie
Posted: 26 January 2023 14:25:15(UTC)
#16

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,819

Robert D;255228 wrote:
It's OK shutting down tax avoidance schemes - there are far too many of them, costing the country tens of billions of lost tax revenue every year - but the government refuses to tackle the bigger problem of tax evasion. London is known as the London laudromat because of the volume of corrupt UK and international money that is hidden in the capital. I wonder why that is?


This is not new !
It has been the case for centuries !
Tim Dr
Posted: 26 January 2023 14:39:41(UTC)
#18

Joined: 02/06/2015(UTC)
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In accordance with every other Law change, of whatever nature, any such reduction / limit CANNOT be retrospective.

e.g. You cannot be retrospectively prosecuted for not wearing a seat belt in 1978. Law changes can only be applied and enforced from the date they are adopted into Statute.

Hope this helps to calm a few worries?
4 users thanked Tim Dr for this post.
Jesse M on 26/01/2023(UTC), Mr Helpful on 26/01/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 26/01/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 26/01/2023(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 26 January 2023 14:47:12(UTC)
#19

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,819

Tim Dr;255234 wrote:
In accordance with every other Law change, of whatever nature, any such reduction / limit CANNOT be retrospective.

e.g. You cannot be retrospectively prosecuted for not wearing a seat belt in 1978. Law changes can only be applied and enforced from the date they are adopted into Statute.

Hope this helps to calm a few worries?

We are not "necessarily" talking about a law change, rather, a cap going forward like the pension cap.
So if someone has £120k in ISA, the govt will most likely allow them to protect that, but may not allow any further contributions. Think Fixed and Enhanced Protection for pensions (may be old terminologies)
1 user thanked Newbie for this post.
Jonathan Friend on 26/01/2023(UTC)
Jesse M
Posted: 26 January 2023 14:48:56(UTC)
#21

Joined: 30/12/2020(UTC)
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As posted on two other threads on the same subject

https://capx.co/capping-...n-british-policymaking/

It’s hardly a surprise that the UK’s savings rate is low, when this does not include house “savings”. Nor is it a surprise that people with mortgages don’t have much left over for cash savings or equities investments.
Besides pensions, which aren’t accessible until retirement, ISAs are the only “safe harbour” for savings that receive anything like the same tax treatment as housing.

What the Resolution Foundation is proposing is to curb this safe harbour dramatically – so that housing is left as pretty much the only way you can save money in the UK without facing a large tax penalty for doing so. The consequence would be to shift even more money into “housing as an investment”, inflating the cost of UK housing even more, exposing more people to the risk of being invested in a single asset, and of course making it harder for future governments to let the cost of housing actually… fall.

That’s very bad. It goes in precisely the wrong direction: as well as making it harder for governments to let house prices fall, it makes it harder for them to reform the taxation of housing and property so that it is less advantaged compared to other investments. This is, in fact, something that Resolution has written about previously, so it’s surprising that they would now propose something that would make that task – far more important, by anyone’s measure – even harder than it already is."

Comparing to LTA on pensions

RF has slightly undermined its own numbers by citing the pensions Lifetime Allowance as a precedent. In that case, an extra tax was imposed on pension pot savings above, at the time, £1.5 million. Resolution just wants to do the same for ISAs, and the revenues it says it would raise – £1 billion – are derived from assuming normal taxation of anything above that.

However, as Ben points out, the Lifetime Allowance actually involves the precedent that existing pots would be partially protected from this kind of taxation. People with pots that were already above the threshold were eligible for a higher individual rate that protected their existing pension pots from the new allowance – so it only affected pots that hadn’t yet reached that point. So if that precedent is anything to go by, the Resolution Foundation’s numbers could be way off, and its proposals would actually raise virtually nothing in the short run, and would depend on people continuing to save in taxable ways, rather than putting it into untaxed housing wealth, or consuming it, etc
1 user thanked Jesse M for this post.
Robert D on 26/01/2023(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 26 January 2023 15:12:52(UTC)
#20

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482

Newbie;255237 wrote:

We are not "necessarily" talking about a law change, rather, a cap going forward like the pension cap.
So if someone has £120k in ISA, the govt will most likely allow them to protect that, but may not allow any further contributions. Think Fixed and Enhanced Protection for pensions (may be old terminologies)



I think that's fair enough to be honest

But it ought to be part of a fundmanetal overhaul of taxation to prevent more money going into a bloated housing market. Taxation of second (and third and fourth) properties should be increased and someone needs to grasp the nettle of capital tax taxation of primary properties (gulp).

My home is my tax haven as the saying goes. Perhaps it shouldn't be
Jimmy Page
Posted: 26 January 2023 15:22:04(UTC)
#11

Joined: 11/11/2017(UTC)
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Jonathan Friend;255222 wrote:

Odd that this "think" tank considers that the answer to all these problems could be even more state intervention, don't you think?


The CEO is Torsten Bell. Was (is?) responsible for co-ordinating Labour Party policies. ex head of policy for Ed Miliband. Ex SPAD for Alistair Darling.

Why float the idea?
1 user thanked Jimmy Page for this post.
Newbie on 26/01/2023(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 26 January 2023 15:49:28(UTC)
#17

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
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Robert D;255228 wrote:
It's OK shutting down tax avoidance schemes - there are far too many of them, costing the country tens of billions of lost tax revenue every year - but the government refuses to tackle the bigger problem of tax evasion. London is known as the London laudromat because of the volume of corrupt UK and international money that is hidden in the capital. I wonder why that is?



How is an ISA "tax avoidance"? The income has already been taxed, and the interest being earned hasn't even kept pace with the government's inflation for almost 15 years - inflation being a form of taxation in itself.

As a working person who has to drive a lot to earn a living, I'm paying enough tax. To have to pay tax on interest that isn't even half way covering the inflation rate, on the modest sum of 20K a year, is an absolute piss take.
4 users thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
Guest on 26/01/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 26/01/2023(UTC), Tim Dr on 27/01/2023(UTC), DHardisty on 31/01/2023(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 26 January 2023 15:51:50(UTC)
#12

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
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Jimmy Page;255244 wrote:
Jonathan Friend;255222 wrote:

Odd that this "think" tank considers that the answer to all these problems could be even more state intervention, don't you think?


The CEO is Torsten Bell. Was (is?) responsible for co-ordinating Labour Party policies. ex head of policy for Ed Miliband. Ex SPAD for Alistair Darling.

Why float the idea?


Sounds like Jeremy Hunt's kinda guy. Sort of lib dem labour tory type of person. All the same shower.
1 user thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
Guest on 26/01/2023(UTC)
Jimmy Page
Posted: 26 January 2023 16:13:42(UTC)
#14

Joined: 11/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,686

Thanks: 6527 times
Was thanked: 3960 time(s) in 1251 post(s)
Jonathan Friend;255252 wrote:
Jimmy Page;255244 wrote:
Jonathan Friend;255222 wrote:

Odd that this "think" tank considers that the answer to all these problems could be even more state intervention, don't you think?


The CEO is Torsten Bell. Was (is?) responsible for co-ordinating Labour Party policies. ex head of policy for Ed Miliband. Ex SPAD for Alistair Darling.

Why float the idea?


Sounds like Jeremy Hunt's kinda guy. Sort of lib dem labour tory type of person. All the same shower.

Well, the Chair and deputy chair of OBR are both ex- RF colleagues of Torsten Bell.

The same OBR that has an effective veto over treasury policies nowadays.


2 users thanked Jimmy Page for this post.
Newbie on 26/01/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 26/01/2023(UTC)
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