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Pension Allowance
OmegaMale
Posted: 15 March 2023 16:43:25(UTC)
#35

Joined: 02/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 535

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Joe 90;260925 wrote:
Chico99;260906 wrote:
Joe 90;260889 wrote:


....

Once you start drawing from the SIPP (as I am) no further contributions are possible.


I'd always thought you could still contribute (after starting to draw down) up to the MPAA.

I didn't because - again, assuming I'd understood it correctly - adding ANY further contribution after starting draw down would have effectively removed my Fixed Protection (FP2016). I stress I was nowhere near the then LTA but taking FP2016 seemed a good idea at the time.

I now need to get my head round whether it makes any real sense for me to slap £8,000/year across into the SIPP.

You are correct in that a small amount can be contributed (£4,000 I recall).


£10000 now according to

https://inews.co.uk/news...ion%20vastly%20reduced.

"Additionally, the amount you can put in your pension once you’ve already withdrawn some has increased – from £4,000 to £10,000.

How this works is those who have started to take money from their defined contribution pension have the amount that can be contribute while still getting tax relief capped. This is known as the money purchase annual allowance or MPAA. Currently the cap is £4,000 and for those who have fully retired and are under 75, the cap is just £3,600 per tax year.

However, this amount has been increased to £10,000. This will help people who had retired, then went back into work later, and found the amount they could save into a pension vastly reduced."

Not sure if the £3600 limit has changed?

OM
2 users thanked OmegaMale for this post.
Sara G on 15/03/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 15/03/2023(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 15 March 2023 16:52:23(UTC)
#57

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
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Raj K;260920 wrote:
Do people think doctors ( I’m only saying this as I have been told tthat keeping doctors in work for longer is what had prompted these generous changes to pension limits) will continue working so they can save more into their pension? I was under the impression that many doctors were getting so burnt out and stressed and fed up of working in the NHS that is why they leave etc. How is this going to make it more attractive for them, wanting to kill themselves for a few years more in that environment? Also doesn’t being able to put more into their pension mean they will reach their targets earlier and retire early anyway?


As i understand it, under the current rules, any additional contributions resulted a situation whereby it cost senior medics money to take on more work / hours, and so wiped out their additional earnings. It isn't just about them wanting to build up massive pensions.Also it seems that the tax charges were hard to predict, meaning that quitting work must have appeared to be a simpler / less risky proposition.

Happy to be corrected on this as I don't have direct experience / contacts in the profession.
6 users thanked Sara G for this post.
Fife Clive on 15/03/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 15/03/2023(UTC), MBA MBA on 15/03/2023(UTC), Dan L on 15/03/2023(UTC), SF100 on 15/03/2023(UTC), Logic Prophets on 16/03/2023(UTC)
MBA MBA
Posted: 15 March 2023 18:17:38(UTC)
#53

Joined: 16/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,725

Optimist;260924 wrote:
MBA MBA;260917 wrote:
The pension LTA being abolished will result in a huge extra 15,000 people entering the workforce at a cost of £1pm. Good value.



Not according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies

As always, time will tell , but using the phrase "will result" is perhaps a little premature.


According to OBR. What is IFS saying?
Andrew1952
Posted: 15 March 2023 18:36:22(UTC)
#28

Joined: 06/07/2019(UTC)
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MBA MBA;260870 wrote:
Thrugelmir;260864 wrote:
markus;260858 wrote:
The Pink Panther;260854 wrote:
LTA ABOLISHED!



until the next government change of policy....


Starmer is actively avoiding confrontation with the Unions as it is. The wording used by Hunt. Makes it challenging for Starmer to portray this as giveaway for the rich. Subtle but effective.


I love how private sector employees have long argued to abolish the LTA and the Tory party only does it when the top 1% public sector officials demand it.


ROFL. He did it in order to give a window for people with private pension funds that are well
over the LTA limit (Think Fred the shred Goodwin and his cohorts) to take out 25% tax free
in a lump sum and zero tax on the amount over £268,000

It also means that bosses of big companies can make massive pension payments to their
top people, who can immediately grab 25% tax free. This is all about emptying the larder
before Labour get into power.
1 user thanked Andrew1952 for this post.
Newbie on 15/03/2023(UTC)
Andrew1952
Posted: 15 March 2023 18:47:45(UTC)
#58

Joined: 06/07/2019(UTC)
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Sara G;260933 wrote:
Raj K;260920 wrote:
Do people think doctors ( I’m only saying this as I have been told tthat keeping doctors in work for longer is what had prompted these generous changes to pension limits) will continue working so they can save more into their pension? I was under the impression that many doctors were getting so burnt out and stressed and fed up of working in the NHS that is why they leave etc. How is this going to make it more attractive for them, wanting to kill themselves for a few years more in that environment? Also doesn’t being able to put more into their pension mean they will reach their targets earlier and retire early anyway?


As i understand it, under the current rules, any additional contributions resulted a situation whereby it cost senior medics money to take on more work / hours, and so wiped out their additional earnings. It isn't just about them wanting to build up massive pensions.Also it seems that the tax charges were hard to predict, meaning that quitting work must have appeared to be a simpler / less risky proposition.

Happy to be corrected on this as I don't have direct experience / contacts in the profession.


The issue is the valuation of that taxpayer-funded final salary pension (The NHS superannuation
scheme has no investment fund). Even at 10x valuation they are underfunded but even so the
value of that pension is over the LTA (actually in some cases more like double the LTA). Hence
every time they get paid they add to their notional pension fund and hence the tax charge, which
mostly isn't a problem because they have such generous pensions, but it is the added trigger to
retire. But then they come back to work as locums via agencies at huge cost to the employer.

When Consultants and GPs (and head teachers) were given those massive pay rises in 2004
this should have been foreseen by G Brown and his mates, but they did nothing. They could have
reformed the NHS superannuation scheme at the same time to set a maximum pension fund value.
Once Any employee reached this value, then no further contributions would be made and the
employee and employer would then pay full NI rates (The NHS scheme is contracted out).
Employees would always be able to pay in a separate SIPP if they wished, and many actually do
if the Portfolio reviews in Investors Chronicle are anything to go by.
2 users thanked Andrew1952 for this post.
Jimmy Page on 15/03/2023(UTC), Sara G on 15/03/2023(UTC)
Dan L
Posted: 15 March 2023 18:48:22(UTC)
#29

Joined: 29/04/2018(UTC)
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Andrew1952;260950 wrote:
MBA MBA;260870 wrote:
Thrugelmir;260864 wrote:
markus;260858 wrote:
The Pink Panther;260854 wrote:
LTA ABOLISHED!



until the next government change of policy....


Starmer is actively avoiding confrontation with the Unions as it is. The wording used by Hunt. Makes it challenging for Starmer to portray this as giveaway for the rich. Subtle but effective.


I love how private sector employees have long argued to abolish the LTA and the Tory party only does it when the top 1% public sector officials demand it.


ROFL. He did it in order to give a window for people with private pension funds that are well
over the LTA limit (Think Fred the shred Goodwin and his cohorts) to take out 25% tax free
in a lump sum and zero tax on the amount over £268,000

It also means that bosses of big companies can make massive pension payments to their
top people, who can immediately grab 25% tax free. This is all about emptying the larder
before Labour get into power.


There is no way of getting anything more than the £268k tax free, and income tax is due on everything else. No huge sums can be paid in. This doesn't affect the big earners who only get a £10k contribution allowance into a pension each year
1 user thanked Dan L for this post.
Jimmy Page on 15/03/2023(UTC)
Andrew1952
Posted: 15 March 2023 18:57:48(UTC)
#54

Joined: 06/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 538

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MBA MBA;260917 wrote:
The pension LTA being abolished will result in a huge extra 15,000 people entering the workforce at a cost of £1m. Good value.


I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.

The top 1% who pay 29% Of all income tax do not need pensions anyway. They have all manner
of other assets and savings.

The vast majority of people with an average ?£75,000 in their pension fund(s) and huge
numbers with zero savings at all aren't going to benefit.

This is just a ploy to allow FTSE and other companies to make massive pension payments
to their top people who can them take out 25% tax free before Labour get back in and
slam the stable door shut again.

People over 50 that are economically inactive are in two groups, the ones who have been
made redundant (to save on their pension costs) and those who have made enough to get
out.

The former are in many cases unemployable because they are over the hill and can be
replaced by younger, cheaper employees who pick up new skills more easily.

The latter are not going to return to work unless they are financially forced to.
MBA MBA
Posted: 15 March 2023 20:25:27(UTC)
#55

Joined: 16/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,725

Andrew1952;260954 wrote:
MBA MBA;260917 wrote:
The pension LTA being abolished will result in a huge extra 15,000 people entering the workforce at a cost of £1m. Good value.


I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.

The top 1% who pay 29% Of all income tax do not need pensions anyway. They have all manner
of other assets and savings.

The vast majority of people with an average ?£75,000 in their pension fund(s) and huge
numbers with zero savings at all aren't going to benefit.

This is just a ploy to allow FTSE and other companies to make massive pension payments
to their top people who can them take out 25% tax free before Labour get back in and
slam the stable door shut again.

People over 50 that are economically inactive are in two groups, the ones who have been
made redundant (to save on their pension costs) and those who have made enough to get
out.

The former are in many cases unemployable because they are over the hill and can be
replaced by younger, cheaper employees who pick up new skills more easily.

The latter are not going to return to work unless they are financially forced to.


I was being sarcastic on the 15,000. That fig is the OBR’s prediction. £1bn cost to get 15,000 more people into the workforce seems an extraordinary use of public money.
DJLW
Posted: 15 March 2023 21:04:49(UTC)
#61

Joined: 06/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 100

Do fixed protections retain their 25% tax free limit? Obviously not needed for overall cap but thought there was a suggestion that they did i.e FP 2014 Cap 1.5m gave a Tax free sum of 375k.
Thrugelmir
Posted: 15 March 2023 21:21:20(UTC)
#59

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,333

Raj K;260920 wrote:
Do people think doctors ( I’m only saying this as I have been told tthat keeping doctors in work for longer is what had prompted these generous changes to pension limits) will continue working so they can save more into their pension?


Their employer the NHS bears the brunt of the burden.
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