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ISA's and Death
Ian Craig
Posted: 04 March 2013 18:00:56(UTC)
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Joined: 13/09/2007(UTC)
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I was trying to understand what happens to my ISA's when I die. I was wondering if ISA investments sold after my death would be hit by CGT in addition to other taxes. I trotted along to the HMRC website, and it said:

Q. What happens if I die?
A. Your ISA will end on the date of your death. There will be no tax to pay on income or capital gains up to that date, but your personal representatives will have to account for tax on any income or gains arising after your death. The ISA manager will either sell the investments and pay the proceeds to your personal representatives (or a beneficiary of your estate), or transfer the investments directly into their hands. The terms and conditions of the ISA may specify which it will be.

Does that mean the investments are subject to CGT when they are sold after death? Would that mean that it may be better to 'bed and breakfast' the investments to realise the gains while I'm still OK? I'm wondering if funds held very long term within an ISA, are better 'swapped-out' and replaced by the shares I trade which are not within an ISA? After all, there seems little point protecting myself from CGT, if I'm not realising gains.
Karl Smith
Posted: 04 March 2013 18:19:49(UTC)
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Ian, my understanding is that HMRC will levy CGT & income tax only on the increases after you are dead. E.g. if between your death and the redemption of the ISA there was a tax liability, then this would be taxed, however any gains (capital or otherwise) during your life would remain exempt.

However, I still think inheritance tax applies as any remittance from the ISA would form part of your estate.
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nk1999 on 05/03/2013(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 04 March 2013 21:32:43(UTC)
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1. Profits taken on investments held within an ISA during your lifetime are not subject to CGT.
2. Profits taken on investments held OUTSIDE an ISA during your lifetime ARE subject to CGT on disposal, on that part of the profit that takes you over the exempt threshold for the year.

3. Where investments are held until death, no CGT applies, as it is a tax on disposals during one's lifetime.

4. On death, the holdings within the ISA are transferred out into a normal non-ISA dealing account. The value they have on the date of death is the probate value (there is a complex little calculation for shares and similar, but it's not particularly significant).

I'll repeat : CGT is not levied on death, only on profits taken on disposals within your lifetime.

Therefore the WORST thing to do is sell everything that is not protected within an ISA on the DAY BEFORE you die, incurring massive capital gains tax (because you are alive), when deferring the intended cash-in by one day would have saved you all the CGT (because you were now dead and therefore CGT is no longer applicable).

5. And if the investments continue to grow in value after your death, before they are distributed to your heirs? It won't affect YOUR CGT, since you are dead, and not liable. It won't affect anybody else's CGT either, unless the increase is large AND the executors (or the subsequent owners) cash in too much profit in any one tax year. (Profit being sale value minus probate value). You may need to read HMRC leaflets (with ice-pack on head!) or consult a specialist on probate and CGT to get the full details.


Hope that's at least moderately clear, but do ask again if it's not!
12 users thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
TJLamb on 05/03/2013(UTC), Stephen Garsed on 05/03/2013(UTC), Hilary hames on 05/03/2013(UTC), Patch on 05/03/2013(UTC), D B on 05/03/2013(UTC), nk1999 on 05/03/2013(UTC), Guest on 06/03/2013(UTC), Guest on 06/03/2013(UTC), Dividend Income investor.com on 08/03/2013(UTC), TomD on 10/03/2013(UTC), Rodney Clarke on 10/03/2013(UTC), Guest on 12/03/2013(UTC)
TrevS
Posted: 05 March 2013 15:15:26(UTC)
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You will get a valuation at date of death from your ISA provider. This amount will be part of your estate and subject to IHT if applicable.

I believe (not 100% sure) that when the ISA provider is notified of the death the ISA ceases and no more gains/loses occur. Any difference in date of death and current value I think is dealt with on form R27 which should be completed by your representatives to reclaim any tax e.g. overpaid income tax.

The first point is correct, the second should be checked.

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Guest on 05/03/2013(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 05 March 2013 16:08:47(UTC)
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When the ISA provider is notified of the death of the account holder, the assets within the ISA are moved out into a non-ISA account until the executors of the will (or administrators of the estate if the deceased was foolish enough not to have a valid will) give instructions for the sale or transfer of those assets.

Obviously, when the account holder dies, nothing in the ISA is subject to CGT or income tax; once transferred into the non-ISA account, the executors/administrators will have to account for any income arising or any profits from sales prior to the transfer to the beneficiaries. There may or may not then be income tax to pay (not on dividends normally), or CGT if the profits were vast after the death and before the estate is wound up, but this is not likely except on amazing fluke investments in the usually short period involved.

A reminder to the ISA holder : try to keep assets within the ISA until death rather than selling them off earlier, unless you really need the money to live or to make lifetime gifts to the family to save a bit of IHT. Spend the non-ISA money first!
2 users thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
domher on 05/03/2013(UTC), Guest on 05/03/2013(UTC)
DGL
Posted: 06 March 2013 09:15:30(UTC)
#6

Joined: 27/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 116

Was I imagining it or did Osborne mutter something about possible holding of certain AIM listed shares within an ISA ?
If this became OK - presumably one should move all ISA investments into qualifying AIM shares two years before death - so whole ISA becomes exepmt from IHT ?
Alan Selwood
Posted: 06 March 2013 15:47:08(UTC)
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I think I read about AIM shares being available for ISA investment soon. Watch what Osborne says before trying, and allow time for ISA providers to change their software so that it doesn't reject attempts to buy AIM shares in an ISA.

It will also be revealing if the AIM > ISA announcement is accompanied by one saying "AIM shares will no longer be exempt from IHT after 2 years" : Chancellors are renowned for giving with one hand while taking away with the other, in the hope that nobody spots that they are actually increasing the tax take!
Lyndon Edwards
Posted: 10 March 2013 13:01:01(UTC)
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The ISA allowance ceases at death and the funds are aggregated with the rest of the estate and subject to inheritance tax (IHT), if liable.

The ISA providers will certify the value at the date of death but unless there is an instruction to the contrary they will continue to be held in the funds, and could either increase or fall with market movements.

The most sensible thing to do is to ask the executors to instruct the fund managers to move the funds into CASH (NOT as cash ISA) This will crystallise the value of the funds.

This is important because regardless of any future moves IHT is calculated on the value of the estate at the date of death. If the markets fall between death and probate you will still have to pay up on the earlier value.Sure, you may miss out on some growth but would you want to risk it?
4 users thanked Lyndon Edwards for this post.
Alan Selwood on 10/03/2013(UTC), Ian Craig on 10/03/2013(UTC), Rodney Clarke on 10/03/2013(UTC), Guest on 12/03/2013(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 10 March 2013 14:50:20(UTC)
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Lyndon Edwards:

Thanks for that comment. Can you elaborate on ANY circumstances in which HMRC will allow adjustments to the probate valuation after death for IHT purposes?
I was thinking of situations where the deceased's house does not sell in a dead property market for anything like the agreed probate valuation until several years later, at a reduced price.
Lyndon Edwards
Posted: 12 March 2013 16:41:42(UTC)
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@ Alan Selwood.

The rule is the value at the date of death, I don't know of any situation where there is a revaluation.

This is the only fair way, brutal as it may seem.
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