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TPAW Planner - an interesting online drawdown simulator
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 27 August 2024 21:02:29(UTC)
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Dentmaster;317230 wrote:
I think it is an excellent tool. It does kinda make you think. For me however , I would not just want to be All world Index and bonds.


I believe the developer has promised to add other asset classes in due course. It's an ongoing project, and he welcomes feedback.

All I can say is Ben Mathew Ph.D really knows his stuff ! His Bogleheads posts are an absolute goldmine to understanding why SWR is nonsense and ABW (of which TPAW is a general case) is provably the way to go...

There is already a way to simulate selling BTLs/downsizing, for example, which is very helpful to me in my planning...
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Dentmaster on 01/09/2024(UTC)
Dentmaster
Posted: 27 August 2024 21:19:55(UTC)
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However since the last time i was on TPAW, i would have been better off , just being in 2 funds. WTF.
Shows what i know.
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Neminem Laedit on 27/08/2024(UTC)
Joe 90
Posted: 01 September 2024 14:32:15(UTC)
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I came across the TPAW recently and I have to say it’s very impressive. I’ve been a fairly staunch advocate of SWR for some years, following ERN, but I’m convinced by TPAW. One thing that surprises me is the suggested equity allocation is significantly lower than that required by SWR. Anyone else have the same observation?
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Neminem Laedit on 01/09/2024(UTC), Dentmaster on 01/09/2024(UTC)
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 01 September 2024 16:15:55(UTC)
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Joe 90;317677 wrote:
I came across the TPAW recently and I have to say it’s very impressive. I’ve been a fairly staunch advocate of SWR for some years, following ERN, but I’m convinced by TPAW. One thing that surprises me is the suggested equity allocation is significantly lower than that required by SWR. Anyone else have the same observation?


As far as I can make out, reading Ben Mathew's posts, I think it is a complex interaction between:-

a) the expected equity risk premium (expected to be relatively low in the future).
b) what fixed income streams you have in the future, e.g. SP, DB, etc.
c) whether you have specified any "essential expenses", which TPAW forces to come from bonds.
d) maybe other things I've missed ! (^_-)

It's worth reading the Bogleheads TPAW thread slowly, from start to finish, to at least get a feel for some of these concepts. Ben tries hard to explain it simply for us lesser mortals, and his insights are quite profound, and sometimes counter-intuitive... If you share your plan with him, he might even go through it line-by-line.

SWR has misled millions of people over the years, into enduring sub-optimal (and risky) retirements.

The Bengen study didn't even recommend it ! It just seems to have been adopted by lazy, innumerate "financial advisors" en masse... [admittedly, Bengen predated the internet and the advent of powerful personal computers/spreadsheets]

Merton identified the amortization and "lifecycle" approach as long ago as 1969 as being optimal, but it is only comparatively recently that it has been taken up and reached a wider audience, by the likes of VPW and TPAW using spreadsheets and online tools.
3 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Aminatidi on 01/09/2024(UTC), Jay P on 01/09/2024(UTC), Dentmaster on 01/09/2024(UTC)
Joe 90
Posted: 02 September 2024 05:50:17(UTC)
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I contacted Karsten Jeske (Big ERN) for whom I have a lot of respect, to seek his views on TPAW and his response was:

"It's too "black-box" and also creates nonsensical results for me: decent initial withdrawals but then -40% in the future, which I don't like. I prefer my approach."

I'm not sure I understand his latter point, but I think I can get his drift. He values consistency of withdrawal level, whereas perhaps others can handle some variation.

I also asked for his thoughts on the lower equity allocations advocated by TPAW and also by Morningstar's forecasts. He takes the view that a 40% equity allocation may work well for traditional retirees, but for 30 years only. He does not recommend for early retirees, though.

My takeaway from all this is that the SWR (at 90% success rate) and TPAW gives me a similar annual withdrawal figure, so I can use both approaches to come to a sensible figure.

The FI Calc site is a useful tool. fical.app
Joe 90
Posted: 02 September 2024 08:28:02(UTC)
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Something I can't understand about the TPAW tool is that, despite leaving the controls at the default position, the 50th percentile withdrawal level gradually increases (in real terms) over the 30 year retirement period.

I would expect the opposite to apply; spending in retirement should decrease through the so-called go-go; slow-go and finally no-go years, or at the very least decline gradually.

The tool does allow you to tilt withdrawals in either direction, but what is the rationale for the default?
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 02 September 2024 08:33:16(UTC)
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Joe 90;317698 wrote:
I contacted Karsten Jeske (Big ERN) for whom I have a lot of respect, to seek his views on TPAW and his response was:

"It's too "black-box" and also creates nonsensical results for me: decent initial withdrawals but then -40% in the future, which I don't like. I prefer my approach."



It sounds like he hasn't looked at it carefully, or doesn't understand it, and is too full of himself...

With TPAW, you can set any glidepath you want, and so the future withdrawals could be higher than the initial ones (at both the 5th and 50th percentiles) if you wish.
Old Jock
Posted: 02 September 2024 08:45:12(UTC)
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Thanks for the post, an interesting approach.

How sensitive is it to the R parameter? I'd be interested to know what it produces for R=0 (presumably a future with zero real growth).

And at the risk of pushing my luck, would a stagflation scenario be modelled by inputting a negative value for R?

One thing I think tends to be missing in these models is health risk/expectation - I'm probably going to be front-loading my retirement income to spend more of it earlier. The logic being you can enjoy it more when you're 60 than when you're over 80 and you never know when your mobility, eyesight, etc, might start tailing off. So rather than the 4% rule I might do the 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 rule as I'm gradually moving towards my date with the grim reaper.
2 users thanked Old Jock for this post.
Neminem Laedit on 02/09/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 02/09/2024(UTC)
Old Jock
Posted: 02 September 2024 08:47:08(UTC)
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Emails crossed - presumably my 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 is the glidepath you mention.
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 02 September 2024 10:00:38(UTC)
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Old Jock;317712 wrote:
Thanks for the post, an interesting approach.

How sensitive is it to the R parameter? I'd be interested to know what it produces for R=0 (presumably a future with zero real growth).

And at the risk of pushing my luck, would a stagflation scenario be modelled by inputting a negative value for R?

One thing I think tends to be missing in these models is health risk/expectation - I'm probably going to be front-loading my retirement income to spend more of it earlier. The logic being you can enjoy it more when you're 60 than when you're over 80 and you never know when your mobility, eyesight, etc, might start tailing off. So rather than the 4% rule I might do the 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 rule as I'm gradually moving towards my date with the grim reaper.


Yes, you can set almost any glidepath you want.

Here's what I intend mine to look like (somewhat, I haven't finished tinkering!) I intend to officially "retire" next year, aged 60. [I've been effectively retired since age 35, but hey-ho...]

Basically, I want to extract the most now, while still getting at least £40k pa (at the 5th percentile) in the unlikely event I should live towards 90...



There are numerous stocks and bonds return forecasts you can try in TPAW. Under the "Fixed" option you can reduce both to -1% annual real returns, if you wish, which may be what you're thinking of.

It is important to enter all your fixed incomes expected during retirement, e.g. SP, DB, etc. to give you a true picture. [e.g. full UK SP is currently £958 a month, expected to outpace inflation]

Another reason why SWR is crap in comparison.
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