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TPAW Planner - an interesting online drawdown simulator
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 02 September 2024 10:21:22(UTC)
#38

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,473

Joe 90;317709 wrote:
Something I can't understand about the TPAW tool is that, despite leaving the controls at the default position, the 50th percentile withdrawal level gradually increases (in real terms) over the 30 year retirement period.

I would expect the opposite to apply; spending in retirement should decrease through the so-called go-go; slow-go and finally no-go years, or at the very least decline gradually.

The tool does allow you to tilt withdrawals in either direction, but what is the rationale for the default?


As I understand it, Merton's formula defaults to a rising schedule because:-
1) the future is cheaper than the present, assuming positive returns, so you should buy more of it.
2) the future is more uncertain than the present, so you should save more for the future, as a precaution.
https://tpawplanner.com/...rtons-portfolio-problem
[You would have to ask Ben Mathew Ph.D to explain it better than I can...]

Although, as Ben Mathew says, you can take the view that you want to consume more sooner rather than later, and specify a falling schedule. It's entirely up to you. There's no right or wrong.

You don't really have to understand these subtleties.

After entering your future fixed income, lump sums, and "essential expenses" if you wish, play with the knobs and sliders, and just create a graph that looks satisfying. [checking the 5th percentiles to be conservative].

You can then experiment with various forecast returns, down to the most conservative, if you wish. Tweak the graph as necessary.

The beauty of amortization is that if you over-estimate returns, you'll get a bit more sooner, and less later.
If you under-estimate returns, you'll get the opposite...
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 02 September 2024 10:40:52(UTC)
#43

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,473

According to the developer, they are now using TPAW as a teaching aid at the Economics Department at Harvard University and at the Finance Unit at Harvard Business School.
3 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Jay P on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), Lesley J on 11/12/2024(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 02 September 2024 10:43:15(UTC)
#44

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It's certainly an interesting idea (good thread). One of my concerns is that you might never stop tinkering with it, given how things change, and how effective would it be then. I like the 4% as a basic guide, perhaps some years taking a bit more and others a bit less. If you have a year or two with higher returns, having that extra holiday or upgrading your car etc. It was once said of me during an appraisal 'Keith prefers the simple approach', to this day I'm unsure if it was a criticism or a compliment!
2 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
Old Jock on 02/09/2024(UTC), Mr Bean on 17/01/2025(UTC)
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 02 September 2024 10:53:39(UTC)
#45

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,473

Keith Cobby;317734 wrote:
It's certainly an interesting idea (good thread). One of my concerns is that you might never stop tinkering with it, given how things change, and how effective would it be then. I like the 4% as a basic guide, perhaps some years taking a bit more and others a bit less. If you have a year or two with higher returns, having that extra holiday or upgrading your car etc. It was once said of me during an appraisal 'Keith prefers the simple approach', to this day I'm unsure if it was a criticism or a compliment!


You would do most of your tinkering at the beginning, setting up your plan.

Then just update your savings portfolio balance every month, and:-

1) withdraw what it tells you (or less if you wish)
2) adjust the AA to what it tells you (roughly, there's no need to fetish over exact AA)

Pretty simple !
3 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Jay P on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 13/01/2025(UTC)
Joe 90
Posted: 03 September 2024 17:11:12(UTC)
#46

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I've reviewed my original SWR calculations. A withdrawal figure giving a 90% chance of success (ie not running out of money during the next 30 years) is only about 10% lower than the suggested TPAW figure, so a useful comparator.

Where I think the TPAW approach is particularly useful is the state pension triple lock. There is (obviously) no way SWR approach can take account of this, whereas TPAW is always up to date.

1 user thanked Joe 90 for this post.
Neminem Laedit on 03/09/2024(UTC)
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 04 September 2024 12:26:43(UTC)
#41

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,473

Neminem Laedit;317727 wrote:


It is important to enter all your fixed incomes expected during retirement, e.g. SP, DB, etc. to give you a true picture. [e.g. full UK SP is currently £958 a month, expected to outpace inflation]

Another reason why SWR is crap in comparison.


Example: showing funding sources and the 50th percentile spend, with my preferred tilt.

Rental income, not increasing with inflation, until age 70 [pink]
Sale of rental property, at age 70 [green]

State Pension, increasing with inflation, starting at age 67 [purple]



Everything is converted to Net Present Values, and the portfolio amortized.

2 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Jay P on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC)
AlanT
Posted: 09 December 2024 16:09:25(UTC)
#47

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My first use of TPAW

TPAW has been referenced a lot in another thread in Investment Trusts https://moneyforums.city...r-attitude-to-risk.aspx
In order not to divert that thread I've returned here to offer my own first experience of using this simulator.

Background:
Self & spouse both 75, retired, mortgage paid, not aiming for target legacy, life expectancy 85-90??
State pensions
SIPP in drawdown - currently taking occasional withdrawals, not on a regular fixed-sum basis.
Some cash savings 3-4 yrs living expenses cover in case of crash
No other income

Our current SIPP & ISA allocation is around 38% bonds/62% equity. Bonds partly in VAGS and within CGT, PNL and some mixed asset funds; equity mainly in growth oriented ITs - BUT, JGGI, S&P500 tracker.

Accepting a Moderate risk level TPAW suggests a portfolio of 35% stocks/65%bonds as asset allocation, , very different to our current asset allocation.


It also suggests an annual withdrawal rate at 50th percentile of around 5.6%. This is a little more than I've been taking.

Overall, I'm inclined to keep our asset allocation where it is but might start withdrawing a little more to match the go go, go slow, no go probable decline in activity and spending.

Has anyone else found themselves getting unexpected asset allocation or withdrawal rate suggestions?
4 users thanked AlanT for this post.
Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), Neminem Laedit on 09/12/2024(UTC), Sheerman on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 12/12/2024(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 09 December 2024 17:41:28(UTC)
#48

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Yes.

I'm in my late 40's with around £560K invested/cash and with some numbers I banged in based on working until 55 and adding £3K/month until then and on a moderate risk profile it reckoned pretty much 50/50 stocks/bonds which seemed massively less risky than I was expecting.

That gave a 50th percentile of around £3k/month.

Right now it's curiosity more than anything else but it piqued my interest.
4 users thanked Aminatidi for this post.
Jay P on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), AlanT on 09/12/2024(UTC), Neminem Laedit on 09/12/2024(UTC)
Rob B
Posted: 09 December 2024 18:51:50(UTC)
#49

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I had a play a few minutes ago. The more you add in 'retirement income' wise, the greater your equity allocation becomes.

It's definitely interesting. Possibly all comes down to a couple of idioms: making hay when the sun shines and cutting you cloth accordingly when times are tougher....
5 users thanked Rob B for this post.
Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), AlanT on 09/12/2024(UTC), Guest on 09/12/2024(UTC), Neminem Laedit on 09/12/2024(UTC), Jay P on 09/12/2024(UTC)
Peanuts
Posted: 09 December 2024 20:04:05(UTC)
#50

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I was listening to bits of an interview yesterday with the guy that started the 4% rule ( yes I know technically it’s *not* a rule ) but he said stock valuations matter when it comes to starting your retirement. A high valuation (historically) means lower future returns and vice versa - low valuation = higher future returns. It sort of makes sense when you think about it.
2 users thanked Peanuts for this post.
Neminem Laedit on 09/12/2024(UTC), Dexi on 10/12/2024(UTC)
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