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SIPP INHERITED NOW TAXED???
Newbie
Posted: 02 November 2024 15:29:07(UTC)

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
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Carl blue nose;324310 wrote:
Looking at ways to mitigate IHT issue on my pension pot, ideas include;

Equity release to increase debt. Once equity is released give to kids and protect with a GIP

Lease a car rather than own one

Increase credit card debt

Give money away now sticking to gifting allowances

Also my pension pots are part in drawdown part in a SIPP. Currently I have taken 100k TFC with 450k in the SIPP. Would you drawdown the max income up to the HRT limit and pay the 20% tax and leave the SIPP untouched until I can hopefully withdraw TFC up to the max of approx 263k.

Any other thoughts?

Buy Gold (Jewellery / Bars / Coin etc and give to family)
4 users thanked Newbie for this post.
Jay P on 02/11/2024(UTC), Carl blue nose on 02/11/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 02/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 02/11/2024(UTC)
stephen_s
Posted: 02 November 2024 16:36:21(UTC)

Joined: 29/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 240

Taking excess money (you won't need) from your pension and 'Gifting' to pay into a SIPP for your children may be a good option at present, especially as more are paying higher rate tax due to 'fiscal drag.'

The government contribution can then compound nicely. :)
Mikesmusing
Posted: 02 November 2024 16:58:19(UTC)
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D Bergman;324137 wrote:
Keith Cobby;324133 wrote:
Firstly, I would abolish IHT, but in the absence of this would abolish these discretionary (family) trusts and give everyone the same IHT cliff edge on death. A payment of 6% each decade affords the very wealthy the planning opportunity denied to the rest of us, or increase the 6% to 10%+. As usual this budget has affected the middle class most adversely.


Let me suggest a solution:

Buy life insurance which can be written in trust (so outside your estate for IHT purposes), to cover expected IHT.

I assumed a single male, aged 34, with assets of £1.2 million.

It took me 5 minutes to check 2 of the main UK insurance companies, and for example, I based it on a 34 year old male, insurance of £350K (which is the IHT for the £1.2 million estate) and valid for 40 years.

The cost was about £35 per month, or say £420 per year.

Obviously this would cost more the older you are: a 25-year policy at the age of 64 would cost £5,000 per year (Legal & General online would only offer cover up to the age of 89).

Even for the 64 year old, 10 years' payment would be £50,000, while the Duke of Westminster's 6% payment on the same £1.2 million estate would work out at £72,000!

I am sure you could find an insurance policy better suited to your situation, with whole-of-life cover, but I have other things to do tonight.

So what are you complaining about?


A minute‘s thought suggests there is a problem here. You want the insurance to pay £350k on death but the total insurance premiums over the term of the policy would be a small fraction of that. The flaw is that many people would outlive the fixed term and there would be no payout on death. Buying a life insurance policy to meet an IHT bill is just a form of investment (or gambling). You are paying away, or investing, premiums from your current assets in return for a payment on your death which may be nil if your policy has a fixed term.

On other points in this thread, the treatment of the SIPP pot after it has been subject to IHT must be part of the consultation. No point deciding what to do until the full details are available. Otherwise you risk making poor decisions.
I’d like to see the whole IHT regime simplified: no exemptions for trusts of any kind; no exemptions for gifts or particular categories of beneficiary. And a lower uniform IHT rate. No games to be played by the wealthy and their advisors. But as my godfather said: live in hope, die in despair….
4 users thanked Mikesmusing for this post.
Carl blue nose on 02/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 02/11/2024(UTC), SSJ on 02/11/2024(UTC), Mr Bean on 03/11/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 02 November 2024 17:05:14(UTC)

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
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Remember the rate of tax on first £50000 income is less than 15%.

Remember most of us have had massive tax benefits with our SIPPs which has made us ultra rich so paying some tax when we die is not such a problem.

Remember the IHT rate is 27.2% on first £1m.

Not bad when considering the Government uplift of 66.6% into our SIPP.

Rather a nice wonderland for many of us.
2 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Gary Millar on 02/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 02/11/2024(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 02 November 2024 17:17:44(UTC)

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482

Jay P;324313 wrote:
Robert D;324306 wrote:

Can you post without using childish labels?

Such as 'Bad Enoch', Comrade?




Bad Enoch was a mis-spelling. What your excuse for using childish labels?
Jay P
Posted: 02 November 2024 17:31:53(UTC)

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Robert D;324324 wrote:
Jay P;324313 wrote:
Robert D;324306 wrote:

Can you post without using childish labels?

Such as 'Bad Enoch', Comrade?




Bad Enoch was a mis-spelling. What your excuse for using childish labels?

Hoho.
As convincing as anything 2TK or that 'economist', the very first female economist apparently, have said I'll grant you, Comrade.
1 user thanked Jay P for this post.
Guest on 02/11/2024(UTC)
Hilda Ogden
Posted: 02 November 2024 18:03:52(UTC)

Joined: 31/07/2023(UTC)
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Seems to me the insurance people could have a whole new income stream. Say I give away £500,000 when I'm 70. I might live seven years and the recipients of the gift are home and dry. There's a reducing liability over the seven year term. So I don't need an insurance policy to simply pay 40% on death. There's a type of insurance policy called decreasing term assurance. It's cheaper than normal life insurance because it will only run for seven years and as those years pass, the tax liability to be covered by the policy reduces. Should I expire at say 75, the policy pays the tax due. Should I live the full seven years, the policy lapses. I think there's an opportunity there.
3 users thanked Hilda Ogden for this post.
Jay P on 02/11/2024(UTC), D Bergman on 02/11/2024(UTC), Kevin Crane on 04/11/2024(UTC)
Geoff Fitz
Posted: 02 November 2024 18:09:50(UTC)

Joined: 21/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 82

Big boy;324322 wrote:
Remember the rate of tax on first £50000 income is less than 15%.

Remember most of us have had massive tax benefits with our SIPPs which has made us ultra rich so paying some tax when we die is not such a problem.

Remember the IHT rate is 27.2% on first £1m.

Not bad when considering the Government uplift of 66.6% into our SIPP.

Rather a nice wonderland for many of us.


This is good at putting thing into context but it will always be a difficult pill to swallow; that if you have £1M and die the state takes £400K immediately and then up to 40-45% if your children have done well. Near term pensions have been used as a means of passing on wealth, there may need to be a period of readjustment. But it looks like 40% now or 40% later ...... well assuming it can be excess income now would offer so much more benefit for my children and so there will need to be some realignment. If I die with £800K in the pot or £400K ...... it's a moot point.
D Bergman
Posted: 02 November 2024 19:05:36(UTC)

Joined: 22/03/2018(UTC)
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Geoff Fitz;324331 wrote:
Big boy;324322 wrote:
Remember the rate of tax on first £50000 income is less than 15%.

Remember most of us have had massive tax benefits with our SIPPs which has made us ultra rich so paying some tax when we die is not such a problem.

Remember the IHT rate is 27.2% on first £1m.

Not bad when considering the Government uplift of 66.6% into our SIPP.

Rather a nice wonderland for many of us.


This is good at putting thing into context but it will always be a difficult pill to swallow; that if you have £1M and die the state takes £400K immediately and then up to 40-45% if your children have done well. Near term pensions have been used as a means of passing on wealth, there may need to be a period of readjustment. But it looks like 40% now or 40% later ...... well assuming it can be excess income now would offer so much more benefit for my children and so there will need to be some realignment. If I die with £800K in the pot or £400K ...... it's a moot point.



It will take some some time to adjust to the new parameters (and let us remember that up to 10 years ago, pension savings were just that - saving for our pensions).

I have already checked the option of gifting money, along with purchasing a 7-year life insurance (made payable to the beneficiary of the gift) and even at the age of 75, I was surprised how inexpensive such a policy could be.

An additional possibility (in my case) is skipping a generation - making grandchildren beneficiaries of the inherited SIPP. As they will not be earning for another 15 years or so, income-producing equities and bonds could be used each year, up to the income tax allowance limits, and moved into junior ISAs. Given what university fees may well be in the late 2030s, that would be very useful.

I have also planned to give 10% of my taxable estate to registered charities - though we do not yet know how the pension plans would fit into this. The effect of the charitable gifts is to reduce IHT on the rest of the estate to 36%. This means (more or less) that on a taxable estate of £1M, the legatees will receive £576K net of IHT, while the charities will receive £100k. So in effect a donation of £100K will cost my family £24K.

There will be other options, some of which we will only be able to work out after the results of the consultation will be published.

1 user thanked D Bergman for this post.
MBA MBA on 02/11/2024(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 02 November 2024 19:08:07(UTC)

Joined: 22/03/2018(UTC)
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Hilda Ogden;324328 wrote:
Seems to me the insurance people could have a whole new income stream. Say I give away £500,000 when I'm 70. I might live seven years and the recipients of the gift are home and dry. There's a reducing liability over the seven year term. So I don't need an insurance policy to simply pay 40% on death. There's a type of insurance policy called decreasing term assurance. It's cheaper than normal life insurance because it will only run for seven years and as those years pass, the tax liability to be covered by the policy reduces. Should I expire at say 75, the policy pays the tax due. Should I live the full seven years, the policy lapses. I think there's an opportunity there.


The issue with decreasing term insurance - to my knowledge - is finding one that does not reduce for 3 years and then starts reducing by the correct percentages.
But I am sure that an enterprising insurance broker will figure it out!
1 user thanked D Bergman for this post.
Hilda Ogden on 02/11/2024(UTC)
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