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wisdomtree capitial efficient global etf WGEC
MrBatch
Posted: 25 November 2024 09:38:03(UTC)
#1

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Hi,

Anyone interested in capital efficient ETF's ( ie return stacking in Corey Hoffstein world) like existing usa one WTEF/NTSX where you get 90 equity 60 bond for every 100 you put in ie 1.5 leverage. Equity are physical sample of s&p and bonds are from 10% collateral as futures.

New one WGEC/NTSG$ is global etf at 0.25% OCF. Its holds ( or will as AUM grows) 4 bond futures from USA, JYP, German bund and GBP as well as global shares.

Info here

https://www.wisdomtree.e...ore-ucits-etf---usd-acc

It trades on LSE in GBx and is available on ii already - launched mid Nov 24
7 users thanked MrBatch for this post.
Guest on 25/11/2024(UTC), Sheerman on 25/11/2024(UTC), Newbie on 25/11/2024(UTC), Dexi on 25/11/2024(UTC), Bob Macondale on 25/11/2024(UTC), Helen L on 25/11/2024(UTC), Jed Mires on 26/11/2024(UTC)
Mr TIPS
Posted: 25 November 2024 13:04:35(UTC)
#2

Joined: 12/12/2020(UTC)
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I read David Stevenson comments on this ETF.

His Comments.....
<Quote>
1. There’s an ESG screen which personally I’m not enthusiastic about and would rather they hadn’t included!
2. The index it tracks is not a widely used one : its called the WisdomTree Global Efficient Core Index.
3. In portfolio terms the ETF is comprised of three key exposures: Equity exposure: 90% invested in a diversified ESG-screened basket of global developed large cap stocks; Bond exposure: 60% in a diversified basket of government bond future contracts, ranging from two- to 30-year maturities and across four currencies (USD, EUR, GBP and JPY);Cash collateral: 10% cash, serving as collateral for Treasury futures contracts. The futures portfolio comprises three US Treasury contracts, three EUR government bond futures contracts, one GBP government bond futures contracts and one JPY government bond futures contracts
4. The equities are physically owned
5. There’s a UK sterling version of the fund with the ticker WGEC
My Bottom Line? I rate this product highly and think it is a real game-changer. It's cheap, it gives good diversification in a simple-to-understand product and it can be easily traded. I can absolutely see this as a core product for many investors who don’t want all the choice and noise of working out messy asset classes, ETFs vs investment trusts etc, etc….
<End Quote>

I read the Wisdomtree marketing material..
a. Wisdomtree suggested either investors with a long timeframe or investor wanting less volatility would
be interested in this product.

I then went to boggleheads and read the comments on the forums about stacking. There are a number of stacking products available to US investors which have been available for some time. So I figured they may have some experience. The impression I came away with after reading a few random posts was...
a. Bond Futures do not always following the index perfectly.
b. In terms of overall returns the difference it makes compared to a traditional 60/40 portfolio are small in the near term and you have to hold this for many decades to achieve significant outperformance. Of course since we do not have decades of experience of this product this outperformance is from back testing. i.e theoretical.
c. The theoretical testing show lower vol. compared to a 60/40 portfolio.
d. This is a complex package. Investors should fully understand the investment. For most people why complicate things? It is generally best to keep things as simple as possible.
e. It is not possible to tweak the ratio of equity/bond exposure or the duration of the bonds.
f. It would be possible to invest 90% of your portfolio in a tracker of your choice and buy the appropriate bond futures with the remain 10% of your portfolio. You could then tweak the duration etc. but you would have to roll the futures etc. a lot of hassle.

My take. If you have decades before you are planning to retire then this maybe a good solution and worth further research. I take a barbell approach to my own investments (Pairing safe [Government Bonds] and risky [global equities]) so this product had some appeal. As with many of these "good ideas" unless you make a significant investment the difference it will make to your overall portfolio is marginal. I am not prepared to take on additional risk on theoretical outcomes. That said I could see these types of products being commonplace in 20+ years time.



11 users thanked Mr TIPS for this post.
MrBatch on 25/11/2024(UTC), Dexi on 25/11/2024(UTC), Helen L on 25/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 25/11/2024(UTC), LondonYank84 on 25/11/2024(UTC), Cm258 on 26/11/2024(UTC), Jed Mires on 26/11/2024(UTC), Sara G on 26/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 27/11/2024(UTC), AlanT on 27/11/2024(UTC), Tim D on 27/11/2024(UTC)
MrBatch
Posted: 25 November 2024 13:39:35(UTC)
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Thanks Mr Tips,

The one use that was not mentioned in your post is the basic premise - it allows you leverage in your portfolio so you can get diversifiers into a standard 60/40 portfolio if you wish.

If.... big if with small AUM at present ( be interested to see how it grows )... you use it to hold 60/40 equity bonds it would allow you circa 33% of alt investments - for me gold, bitcoin proxy and managed futures. I hold alot of the USA 1st released fund WTEF and will migrate this to WGEC for a more diversified equity/bond portfolio.

Not right for all but great that there is now a global offering rather than just S&P500
1 user thanked MrBatch for this post.
Mr TIPS on 25/11/2024(UTC)
Mr TIPS
Posted: 25 November 2024 14:07:03(UTC)
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Mr Batch,

You were right to pick me up on the inclusion of alternatives. I forgotten I have looked into that.

So I considered

67% WGEC
11% BHMarco
11% Man GLG Alpha Select Alternative IL GBP
11% Winton Trend (UCITS) I GBP

That would have effective giving me
60% Global Equities
27% Government Bonds
11% Macro Trading
11% Long/Short
11% Trend Following

With a 120% exposure split half equities and half stuff that will probably be ok in a downturn.
(This is the sort of thing that would not look out of place in a hedge/pension/endowment fund.)

But Alas, probably too experimental for my tastes.

Good Luck.
5 users thanked Mr TIPS for this post.
dlp6666 on 25/11/2024(UTC), Dexi on 25/11/2024(UTC), Newbie on 25/11/2024(UTC), MrBatch on 25/11/2024(UTC), Tim D on 27/11/2024(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 25 November 2024 20:25:12(UTC)
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Mr TIPS;326772 wrote:

With a 120% exposure split half equities and half stuff that will probably be ok in a downturn.
(This is the sort of thing that would not look out of place in a hedge/pension/endowment fund.)


The key when institutional funds do it is they spread manager risk. I wouldn't dream of 10% in a retail long/short or macro fund, because every 3-5 years I could go back, there were different 'good' funds, and 90% of the rest were always terrible. It's very common you buy the moment they seem to go bad – but that's survivorship bias in action.

Waverton Alternatives made absolutely nothing trying to invest in a portfolio of these funds. It's so deceptive, which ones are really good. Generally none of them. Or some of them, but only when they were small (so as soon as they get on your radar, they're probably already running into size issues).

BH Macro's a good fund, but the discount's probably going to dictate the return more than the strategy over 5-10 years, so it's a 1-2% position in a discount trading strategy. You could also say you don't need to use these kinds of alts, now we've got long-dated bonds nearly yielding 5%.

4 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Mr TIPS on 25/11/2024(UTC), Sara G on 26/11/2024(UTC), AlanT on 27/11/2024(UTC), Tim D on 27/11/2024(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 25 November 2024 21:13:27(UTC)
#6

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,833

Mr TIPS;326772 wrote:
Mr Batch,

You were right to pick me up on the inclusion of alternatives. I forgotten I have looked into that.

So I considered

67% WGEC
11% BHMarco
11% Man GLG Alpha Select Alternative IL GBP
11% Winton Trend (UCITS) I GBP

That would have effective giving me
60% Global Equities
27% Government Bonds
11% Macro Trading
11% Long/Short
11% Trend Following

With a 120% exposure split half equities and half stuff that will probably be ok in a downturn.
(This is the sort of thing that would not look out of place in a hedge/pension/endowment fund.)

But Alas, probably too experimental for my tastes.
Good Luck.

Out of curiosity have you looked at the Pictet Global Megatrends ?
I've got rid of BH Macro and erm and arring what to do with the Pictet which I hold.
Finding it difficult to justify in portfolio as feel a simple tracker/momentum/global 100 will pick up trends as they appear.
Mr TIPS
Posted: 25 November 2024 22:22:42(UTC)
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Joined: 12/12/2020(UTC)
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Newbie;326837 wrote:

Out of curiosity have you looked at the Pictet Global Megatrends ?
I've got rid of BH Macro and erm and arring what to do with the Pictet which I hold.
Finding it difficult to justify in portfolio as feel a simple tracker/momentum/global 100 will pick up trends as they appear.


The Winton fund is managed futures strategy. Basically it is software that is programed to follow price trends. Each Hedge Fund will have its own approach but basically it is a momentum driven strategy. You buy whatever goes up and sell (short) whatever goes down. This is done using futures contracts. The fund will typically operate in a number of different markets e.g. equities or commodities or etc. So, for example, at the start of the year coco price kept going up and this turned out to be very profitable for trend following strategies. In an asset downturn, when prices keep going down, the Trend Following program will make money. This approach has little correlation to equities. Fans claim it is a new asset class and as such think it should be part of investment portfolios. What kills its returns is when the market yoyo up and down and the program gets whipsawed by, say, going long then reverse that position by switching to short. Costs tend to escalate. Perhaps the real skill in such strategy is knowing which markets to participate and over what time period. Typically you do not follow all the markets all the time. That is were the managers/quants could add value.

see
https://www.winton.com/n...what-is-trend-following
for more details.

From memory I think this fund returned on average about 7% a year from the past 5 years. But with a wide range of outcomes.

There are few choices for such funds available to UK investors. As is often the case many more options available to US investors.

I think/imagine the Pictet Global Megatrends is a manager picking stocks (long only) to take advantage of trends they have identified. e.g. aging population or global warming etc.
3 users thanked Mr TIPS for this post.
Newbie on 26/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 27/11/2024(UTC), Tim D on 27/11/2024(UTC)
MrBatch
Posted: 25 November 2024 23:12:12(UTC)
#5

Joined: 22/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 237

Thanks: 538 times
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[quote=Mr TIPS;326772]Mr Batch,

You were right to pick me up on the inclusion of alternatives. I forgotten I have looked into that.

So I considered

67% WGEC
11% BHMarco
11% Man GLG Alpha Select Alternative IL GBP
11% Winton Trend (UCITS) I GBP

That would have effective giving me
60% Global Equities
27% Government Bonds
11% Macro Trading
11% Long/Short
11% Trend Following

It gets better you would have 40% bonds not 27% with that 67% allocation to WGEC
I like the PF but would lose the Man for more trend - imgp dbi fund which is the dbmf etf in a ucit form - on ii and i own it.

A less leveraged PF could be say 40% WGEC which would still give 80% spare to total 120% nett PF for normal equity, bonds, alt, gold or BTC on top of the 40% WGWC ( 36eq/24%bond )
1 user thanked MrBatch for this post.
Mr TIPS on 25/11/2024(UTC)
MrBatch
Posted: 25 November 2024 23:18:02(UTC)
#9

Joined: 22/02/2021(UTC)
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ben ski;326828 wrote:
Mr TIPS;326772 wrote:

With a 120% exposure split half equities and half stuff that will probably be ok in a downturn.
(This is the sort of thing that would not look out of place in a hedge/pension/endowment fund.)


The key when institutional funds do it is they spread manager risk. I wouldn't dream of 10% in a retail long/short or macro fund, because every 3-5 years I could go back, there were different 'good' funds, and 90% of the rest were always terrible. It's very common you buy the moment they seem to go bad – but that's survivorship bias in action.

Waverton Alternatives made absolutely nothing trying to invest in a portfolio of these funds. It's so deceptive, which ones are really good. Generally none of them. Or some of them, but only when they were small (so as soon as they get on your radar, they're probably already running into size issues).

BH Macro's a good fund, but the discount's probably going to dictate the return more than the strategy over 5-10 years, so it's a 1-2% position in a discount trading strategy. You could also say you don't need to use these kinds of alts, now we've got long-dated bonds nearly yielding 5%.



We don't have much choice on macro in retail land so you want it (macro) BHMG's probably your best shot. I would expect it to perform strongly in a major macro shock whereby its discount will shorten due to demand. It is expensive and I agree 11% would be too rich for me. I hold 5% in PF currently.

Recent article on it FYI - create free kepler a/c to watch it. They do investment trust info as their core info

https://www.trustintelli...h-macro-retail-oct-2024
1 user thanked MrBatch for this post.
Sheerman on 26/11/2024(UTC)
Jed Mires
Posted: 26 November 2024 09:23:48(UTC)
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Joined: 04/04/2023(UTC)
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Mr Batch thanks for highlighting this fund. I hold a small amount of WTEF mainly to see how it performs, so far its been good. The global version WGEC is what a lot of investors are looking for, a one ETF version of a global 60/40, as an alternative toVanguard lifestrategy, HSBC Global Strategy etc. Its also on AJBell.
2 users thanked Jed Mires for this post.
MrBatch on 26/11/2024(UTC), Cm258 on 26/11/2024(UTC)
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