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Who's for Greggs?
Rookie Investor
Posted: 10 January 2025 17:46:38(UTC)
#12

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,081

Thanks: 1341 times
Was thanked: 3625 time(s) in 1413 post(s)
On 2023 FY results I calculate a 3% FCF yield (on todays market value) accounting for lease repayments. That does not look that attractive to me. Sales grew 10% in 2024 over 2023, so that's still only 3.3% FCF yield, assuming margins the same.

If there is a robust growth outlook with a lot more shops opening, then it might be an ok entry here. Or is there some cost saving with more efficiencies? Those are probably the two main questions I would be asking. also more detail on the lease obligations which complicates things when valuing.
2 users thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
Hilda Ogden on 10/01/2025(UTC), Johan De Silva on 10/01/2025(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 10 January 2025 18:45:14(UTC)
#10

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,316

Hilda Ogden;330730 wrote:
Thrugelmir;330724 wrote:
Rookie Investor;330716 wrote:
Is this still a growth company though; are they expanding at a good rate to justify a good return at todays valuation?



Price wise undercut the competition by a considerable margin. Tougher economic conditions will challenge the wider hospitality sector.

Personally, I see little of concern. Go to any branch at lunchtime and see.


Precognition isn't something I'm able to do. Consequenly I rely on my personal experiences of the corporate world.
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 10 January 2025 19:04:09(UTC)
#13

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

Quote:
Great business but seriously challenged with tax hikes and customers feeling the economic pinch in their pockets

You have said nothing there that wasn't known before the RNS and huge fall.
I can only assume the share price had got ahead of itself with unrealistic growth expectations ? The P/E looks too high in the upper teens - lots of consumer facing businesses trading at mid single digit P/Es in the Labour dustbin called the UK.

I remain hopeful of good updates and dividend declarations from:
Ramsdens (14th Jan) - bolstered by the gold price - Rolex anyone.
Card Factory (14th Jan) - have been sticking to their yr end projected numbers even in December despite a big miss with costs at the half year. Supply all the UK Aldi stores and just tiptoeing into the US market.
Marston's (21st Jan) - Hopefully turning a corner after £300M of debt reduction from selling the brewing business. (still carry £880M+ of debt though). Seem unusually relaxed about the budget, planning for customers to order by App. £2.1 Billion of pub properties gives a NAV of 103p vs a share price of 41p.
Mobico (late Feb) - A long slow climb back from the covid scamdemic after getting pulverised by the driver shortage and wage blackmail alongside fixed price contracts in an inflationary world. Mired in debt but divestment offers a possible route out. A billion customer journeys every year.
Saga (30th Jan) - Pulverised by the pandemic and having sold 3 year fixed price insurance into a newly inflationary world. Climbing back having done a partnership deal for their insurance business. They need to refinance debt on their two cruise ships or go under. Voted best cruise line for luxury holidays in the British Travel awards for the 3rd year running (shh - are they any others ?)

Based on market reactions to recent results (MKS, Sainsbury, Tesco etc) it will matter not whether they are good or bad, all the share prices will tank. Fear and Rachel from Customer Complaints stalk the UK and everyone sensible has all their money in the bank now.

PS DYOR and do not buy any of the above dog shit companies, no-one else is and shorters abound.
PPS Any thoughts on the above welcome before I end up sleeping in a cardboard box until my maker collects me.
Wave Action
Posted: 10 January 2025 19:24:55(UTC)
#14

Joined: 30/11/2023(UTC)
Posts: 388

Typical reaction to a share which suffers from slower growth forecasts . Maybe not as severe in many cases but sentiment was poor today worldwide . To be fair it's been falling steadily for months from 3250. When valuations such as P/E ratio head towards 20 then they've got to deliver the goods or face a hammering. Still it's got it's place in the high street and growing in low single figures . More stores are to open .

https://finance.yahoo.co...th-slows-130415864.html

https://www.fool.co.uk/2...-this-my-chance-to-buy/

Although forecasts will be updated in the coming days, forward EPS are in the region of 140p for 2026 so a P/E of 15 ish ? Not cheap and not expensive.

https://markets.investor...eet/forecasts?s=GRG:LSE

https://uk.marketscreene...S-PLC-4001975/finances/

From the above link analysts have been readjusting forecasts since October to reflect budget changes. 2025 and 2026 have been revised down..

https://cdn.zonebourse.c...nJtamxtMUZVZ3BDa043UkU9

Falling off a cliff at the moment ...

https://bigcharts.market...ggle=false&state=11

Saying all that looking for yield it's easy to buy CTY on yield 5% and P/E valuation in single figures. There again that's an IT fund and not a share . Chance you take. ?

Retail sector is throwing up more potential bargains. BME another store in every town . Price has slumped from 600p to 300p . Again slower growth . Forward P/E OF 8 and Yield of 5% for 2026.

https://uk.marketscreene...N-VALUE-RETAIL-16686539/
Johan De Silva
Posted: 10 January 2025 20:34:45(UTC)
#16

Joined: 22/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4,410

It's not showing that it is in a net cash position. Why is revenue growth double that of expected earnings growth? Earnings growth suggests it was grossly overpriced. It still is expensive in relative terms! The P/E ratio should be between 8 and 12 in my opinion.

There's a lot of negativity towards UK companies, often with examples to back it up. However, I find there are plenty of strong growth businesses in the UK that operate globally and have a greater runway than Greggs. For instance, Greggs has a P/E ratio of 16, yet a quality company like Clarkson (CKN) was available at a very reasonable price this year. Even in the food sector, Premier Foods, with a P/E of 15, offers better growth potential.

One of the fastest-growing businesses in the UK is GAMA. Its P/E ratio is gradually decreasing to 25, and it has expanded globally to the US with earnings growth of over 50% recently. This is one stock guaranteed to go up this year when it moves to the FTSE250.

Consider QinetiQ Group (QQ), one of the best-growing profitable companies in military AI, cybersecurity, drones, and other services, with a P/E of 17. It has divisions in the US and Canada. I own this stock recently, and I’ve already mentioned ALPH on this forum if rate stay high.

While the UK may be too small for a significant growth runway (most companies stall), any growth company must operate globally, and Greggs is not one of them.
Thrugelmir
Posted: 10 January 2025 21:10:02(UTC)
#15

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,316

Wave Action;330745 wrote:
Typical reaction to a share which suffers from slower growth forecasts .


Using a back of a fag packet calculation. Applying the change in minimum wage and Employers National Insurance from April. That's say a minimum £2k per employee. With 32,500 employees. That's £65 million wiped off the bottom line. Full year profit for 2023 was £188 million in comparison.
Robin B
Posted: 10 January 2025 21:59:57(UTC)
#17

Joined: 01/04/2024(UTC)
Posts: 1,504

Sausage rolls too small and the coffee is mean. They seem a bit limited in range to me and everything they sell gives me heart burn. Can't they figure out a solution to that? Besides, I prefer Sayers for bakery stodge.

Minimum wage and NICs being jacked up... cheaper alternatives for the crap they sell - like in the supermarket. Four sausage rolls for a pound. And soon Rachel from Complaints will return from China with her very own, brand new, original economic strategy: "The Great Leap Forward".

That said, they do seem to be popular. When I was in Leeds, nearly a third of the retail outlets in the city centre seemed to be Greggs. And I went to their factory whilst I was there funnily enough... seeing the lard-saturated process is a tad off putting.

I will invest though if the price is right and will monitor the Transactions thread assiduously for the right moment to copy others.
SoBo65
Posted: 11 January 2025 07:09:25(UTC)
#18

Joined: 04/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 107

Long term holder (approx 12 years), just bought some more. Normal order is a flat white and belgian bun.
Hilda Ogden
Posted: 11 January 2025 15:46:49(UTC)
#19

Joined: 31/07/2023(UTC)
Posts: 883

Meantime, out in the big wide world, the day before yesterday -

https://www.edinburghnew...-outdoor-seating-4936639
ben ski
Posted: 11 January 2025 16:10:19(UTC)
#20

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,352

Looks like you're buying a 6.6% earnings yield with 8-10% earnings growth, down from 30%. So about in line with the FTSE – which is what you'd expect.

If growth keeps slowing, you're probably buying at reasonable value. Probably expect slightly higher returns than an equivalent gilt. Just going on earnings and earnings growth.

Invest in what you understand. I would actually say eating sausage rolls is about in line with what investors here are likely to understand. So maybe there is upside here that isn't immediately obvious in the accounts.
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