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Too much of the Magnificent Seven in our ISAs?
You have to change your life
Posted: 11 February 2025 17:36:05(UTC)
#27

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When I say be wary about the motivation of any poster, what I mean is: if the poster would not buy the stock on a PE of 12, you waste your time holding your breath for a different message @ 36?

Let's tell the truth here: a lot of forumites have been banging the drum for a reversal for almost as long as they have been marching on the wrong foot.
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Harry Gloom on 11/02/2025(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 11 February 2025 17:36:50(UTC)
#20

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,317

Newbie;333979 wrote:
Thrugelmir;333975 wrote:
You have to change your life;333969 wrote:


You have to distinguish between what investors expect and what they hanker for, as very often their posts conflate the two.


Apple's PE ratio in 2012 was 12 today in 2025 it's 36.

If you are going to use hindsight. At least use facts and not random quotes taken out of any context. Says a lot that you've the time to waste dissing people. Rather than contrstructively debating investing and what may or may not lie ahead.

To be fair
You were not using PE to put down Apple -
You were using the concept of innovation and supply chain issues.
Your point still stands and today it is what many start with saying about Apple as a reason for not holding.
I do not disagree with your either. Apple is not and cannot innovate forever, Supply (China) is still an issue.
However....
To me Apple is now a value (as opposed to growth) company with recurring revenues and a sticky offering.
It forms/will form a smaller part of my portfolio

I do not need an iphone to communicate, I can do that with any phone, I do not need an iPad or a Macbook
However I do like their security features - which is why I moved to apple from MSFT in the first place - data security, breaches etc.
I like the certainty that the App store has predictable and recurring revenue (I also recognize that Zukerberg hates Apple as he has to pay to have his apps and offerings via the appstore and cannot rely on Android alone).

All the gimmicky stuff such an watches, pencils etc are of no interest to me, but I know that that there are plenty of aspiring people who will continue to buy them, not because they need or have any use for them, but they can look trendy and cool and pretend to to have some wealth.


I've no qualms with Apple being a quality company. Would I wish to be highly weighted on a PE 36. A share price that's driven by retail investor momentum. No thanks. Buffett has sold down a huge amount of BH's holding in 2024 as believes it priced at above intrinsic value. Perfectly happy with some boring UK stock trading on a PE of less than 10. That's churning out cash. Buying back it's shares and paying a healthy dividend.
Newbie
Posted: 11 February 2025 17:38:00(UTC)
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Paul Coombs;333974 wrote:
Newbie;333918 wrote:
10% is very low even compared to the major indices such as World Index, S&P 500, Value etc.

Personally I would not be negatively worried with a 10% allocation - instead I may be worried that I do not have enough given how much those companies are ingrained in our daily lives.


Interesting view - and now a debate on what % allocation I ought to consider maybe?

That is a tough one.
I personally allocate 25-30% (that is an individual choice and is based on some actual research into the specific companies including come of the companies they themselves invest in)

One way could be to look at how much of your daily time is attached to the main offerings from those companies (ie how long are you on some Google offerings, Youtube, Maps, social media etc) and work a % based on that). You could also look around your surroundings and see how much of your workplace is surrounded by such offerings.

To me what the mega tech companies "sell" is solutions to corporates and.
What they "buy" from retail customers is time.
The clever thing is the arbitrage that takes place.

Retail clients themselves pay to sell their time to the mega techs and the mega techs use that money to develop solutions for the corporates they sell to generate revenues - be it ads or cloud services. It is the old model of an exclusive membership to get access to a trendy club completely re-engineered.
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Paul Coombs on 15/02/2025(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 11 February 2025 17:44:24(UTC)
#28

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My view on Tesla

It is an AI and Licensing company masquerading as car company.

I have said this before it is not a car company it never was - it was always a tech company.

Just because all the hype is on FSD we simplistically assume it is a car company.

Why would Ford sign the licensing contract - not just for the FSD but also because TSLA has mapped out all the routes like Google Maps.

I made some very profitable trades on it and, when it shifts down a bit more I will end up buying again.

If you look at the books of TSLA you will see that the so called car division is doing diddly squat to the finances and stock (that is all hype), things like its energy business is working in background.

Then you have to look at Musk - he likes to play magician, focus the attention elsewhere and then bang, shows you something completely different.
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Sheerman on 11/02/2025(UTC), Rookie Investor on 11/02/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 11 February 2025 19:04:16(UTC)
#29

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I don't think it's worth trying to outguess the market.

That's what market efficiency means – not that the market's always right, just that it's factoring in more information than you are ... and no amount of money or resources (e.g. those of a major bank) could build a team that are going to be able to outguess the market at a rate better than chance.

The idea that we're too concentrated in Mag7 stocks isn't based on any real analysis. It's just a current neurosis. It was US stocks and CAPE ratios 10 years ago. You could split a business like Apple or Amazon up into 8 smaller businesses, and scatter them throughout the S&P, and it'd amount to the same thing – only one would be a software business, a hardware business, a communications business, a VC fund, etc.

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J Thomas on 11/02/2025(UTC), Harry Gloom on 11/02/2025(UTC)
J Thomas
Posted: 11 February 2025 19:29:27(UTC)
#32

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I'm invested 48.5% in the magnificent seven stocks. That is probably the most on this forum by a significant margin. However, I am remarkably content with that high percentage, and those stocks would need to fall by over two thirds in aggregate to show any losses. I just let my winner's continue to run, much simpler that way.
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ben ski on 11/02/2025(UTC), Harry Gloom on 11/02/2025(UTC), Newbie on 11/02/2025(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 11 February 2025 19:42:20(UTC)
#30

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ben ski;334000 wrote:
You could split a business like Apple or Amazon up into 8 smaller businesses, and scatter them throughout the S&P, and it'd amount to the same thing – only one would be a software business, a hardware business, a communications business, a VC fund, etc.

Not so.
Look throughout history, key decisions and asset allocation has as much bearing as the information and product itself on returns.

Apple was dead and heading towards the graveyards by the decisions of the soda dude.
Blockbuster exploded by rejecting Netflix
Ebay almost died trying to copy Amazon.
They all had the same information at that point in time - they just different views and made choices accordingly

The magic information formula you keep referring to is and has always been out there,. It the decisions you make with it and the capital you deploy towards ideas that play a huge role in returns.

Google has vasts amount of information (as does Ebay) but it needs to make use of it in a meaningful way to be successful and then allocate resources towards a chosen path.

I always like the analogy of Water - 2/3 of the world and your body is full of it. It is free and accessible to all (ok I overlook the places which have drought)
Yet some genius thought what if we bottle it and sell it we could make a trillion dollar industry out of it. Sure it will add costs but mankind will still buy it.

In much the same way, Apple developed a large portable hard disk and sold it has ipods and came back from the dead. The information (and product in both cases) was already there just not the way you imagined it.

The likes of MSFT, Google had both the data and information but Amazon made AWS into the largest cloud service provider. Today whilst everyone is busy developing proprietary AI, the likes of Amazon went open source and were happy to use all of them including Deepseek and guess what - yesterday they just moved to the leaders not by having a better model but simply by allowing all of them in their eco system.

So when a company incubates many companies they make an active choice on the views they have. SO 8 separate companies will have 8 heads and will look at things in 8 different ways and make 8 different allocation choices.
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Jay P on 11/02/2025(UTC)
You have to change your life
Posted: 11 February 2025 19:48:42(UTC)
#33

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J Thomas;334006 wrote:
I'm invested 48.5% in the magnificent seven stocks. That is probably the most on this forum by a significant margin. However, I am remarkably content with that high percentage, and those stocks would need to fall by over two thirds in aggregate to show any losses. I just let my winner's continue to run, much simpler that way.


Not so. AUM (other than pension/property)

I am 38% Apple
16% Microsoft
14% Googl
5% Meta


And quite happy with those allocations. Mostly because they have served me so well. So, if there is to be a retracement, a rethinking or a revision - which there is sure to be for individual companies - I sit quite zen on the gains already offered to me.


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Newbie on 11/02/2025(UTC), J Thomas on 11/02/2025(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 11 February 2025 20:32:01(UTC)
#34

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You have to change your life;334010 wrote:
J Thomas;334006 wrote:
I'm invested 48.5% in the magnificent seven stocks. That is probably the most on this forum by a significant margin. However, I am remarkably content with that high percentage, and those stocks would need to fall by over two thirds in aggregate to show any losses. I just let my winner's continue to run, much simpler that way.


Not so. AUM (other than pension/property)

I am 38% Apple
16% Microsoft
14% Googl
5% Meta


And quite happy with those allocations. Mostly because they have served me so well. So, if there is to be a retracement, a rethinking or a revision - which there is sure to be for individual companies - I sit quite zen on the gains already offered to me.



Are you planning on making changes to the allocations at all.
Reason for asking is that the growth of Apple has led it to be way way ahead for many and whilst the headlines such as Buffet selling Apple makes a big noise and gives reporters something to talk about, the fact is that a lot of his overweight and size was growth itself.
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 11 February 2025 20:52:58(UTC)
#36

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,101


Just idle speculation about what the "Top 7" will look like in ten years time.

It has changed before and will almost certainly change again.

Maybe Plantir will be in there, judgin on the last few month. Though it could equally explode.

My guess would also that Tesla will be gone. Partly EV's become either ubiquitous and it becomes 'just another car company' and partly as Musk seems hell bent on becoming a hate figure for half his target market.

Currently my Facebook feed is absolutely full of pro-Musk adverts all bigged up by a swath of one-post bots, so there is clearly some panic going on somewhere. But judging be the level and tone of comments and memes from real people in reply it's not working very well.


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