Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Do I need some inflation-linked bonds?
Peanuts
Posted: 02 March 2025 18:43:39(UTC)
#1

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,474

Thanks: 2446 times
Was thanked: 2391 time(s) in 917 post(s)
I don't want to hijack Cm258's thread so...

Ben Ski and a few others regularly mention inflation-linked bonds. I've only just got my head around nominal bonds, and bond funds so IL is a new subject for me. A little background - in my SIPP I am 60% global equities and 40% UK gilts (VGVA) and Global Agg (VAGS). Would I be wise to switch some of my current bond funds for some U.K. Inflation-Linked Gilt Index Fund (VUKIFLA)? If so what benefit do IL bonds give, and do they share the same capital appreciation bonus if interest rates come down? I'm currently only on the Vanguard platform hence the only option to me is the above fund.

Thanks
3 users thanked Peanuts for this post.
Cm258 on 02/03/2025(UTC), Jed Mires on 02/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC)
NPH
Posted: 02 March 2025 18:58:39(UTC)
#2

Joined: 26/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 59

Thanks: 73 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 32 post(s)
Peanuts;336271 wrote:
I don't want to hijack Cm258's thread so...

Ben Ski and a few others regularly mention inflation-linked bonds. I've only just got my head around nominal bonds, and bond funds so IL is a new subject for me. A little background - in my SIPP I am 60% global equities and 40% UK gilts (VGVA) and Global Agg (VAGS). Would I be wise to switch some of my current bond funds for some U.K. Inflation-Linked Gilt Index Fund (VUKIFLA)? If so what benefit do IL bonds give, and do they share the same capital appreciation bonus if interest rates come down? I'm currently only on the Vanguard platform hence the only option to me is the above fund.

Thanks


I am absolutely not an expert but I do have my own experience.
I had the defensive part of my portfolio in the HL recommended L&G Index Linked Gilt Index fund.
My view was it wouldn't do much but would be 'safe' in a downturn. Instead, it dropped 30% when interest rates went up in '22 and has lost a bit more in each of the two years since.
I can't say what would happen if rates do come down, but I would say you need to be very sure it's going to happen in a meaningful way.

2 users thanked NPH for this post.
Peanuts on 03/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 02 March 2025 19:01:09(UTC)
#4

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,352

Thanks: 426 times
Was thanked: 3887 time(s) in 1012 post(s)
I think as a rule, obviously, you have to know enough about an asset class that you could be a guest speaker at Yale on it, before it's wise to invest.

The classic pattern here is people will convince you you need something, then it'll have an up, down or sideways 5 years, and general consensus will be "Wish I hadn't listened to that!"

Inflation-linked bonds are basically bonds, but you're calculating your returns in real terms, rather than nominal. So you buy at 1.5%, and you will make 1.5% after inflation. The problem with the Vanguard fund is an effective average duration around 15 years. A lot of the long-dated bonds that make up that index are bought by insurers and endowments, with long-term liabilities to match. So I don't know that that duration makes the most sense for a retirement investor. You can effectively reduce its duration by having say 10% in that fund, and 10% in a short-duration gilt fund or MMF, and rebalancing. But this is where you have to know a bit of theory. In principle, I'd say having your bonds split 50:50 inflation-linked and nominal makes good sense. (Personally, I don't actually like or hold bonds – I prefer cash, gold and defensive equities, but I let CGT and PNL make active decisions on IL bonds.)

4 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Cm258 on 02/03/2025(UTC), Peanuts on 02/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC), Tim D on 08/03/2025(UTC)
Jed Mires
Posted: 02 March 2025 19:18:30(UTC)
#7

Joined: 04/04/2023(UTC)
Posts: 337

Thanks: 315 times
Was thanked: 634 time(s) in 224 post(s)
Peanuts;336271 wrote:
I don't want to hijack Cm258's thread so...

Ben Ski and a few others regularly mention inflation-linked bonds. I've only just got my head around nominal bonds, and bond funds so IL is a new subject for me. A little background - in my SIPP I am 60% global equities and 40% UK gilts (VGVA) and Global Agg (VAGS). Would I be wise to switch some of my current bond funds for some U.K. Inflation-Linked Gilt Index Fund (VUKIFLA)? If so what benefit do IL bonds give, and do they share the same capital appreciation bonus if interest rates come down? I'm currently only on the Vanguard platform hence the only option to me is the above fund.

Thanks



If rates do come down the Vanguard IL find should give you some capital appreciation but it's a very volatile fund. If you are looking for protection against future unexpected inflation then buying an individual IL gilt is probably your best option, but you will have to buy it on a different platform. Of course you only get inflation protection on the percentage of your portfolio invested in IL bonds. If you are only going for a small percentage then it's hardly worth the bother.
2 users thanked Jed Mires for this post.
Peanuts on 02/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC)
Cm258
Posted: 02 March 2025 19:19:59(UTC)
#8

Joined: 30/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 458

Thanks: 869 times
Was thanked: 712 time(s) in 298 post(s)
Monevator have a few good articles on inflation linked gilts. View is that for this exposure, you may want to go with an active fund, or even better, buying inflation linked gilts directly.

Check out...

https://monevator.com/sh...index-linked-gilt-fund/

https://monevator.com/index-linked-gilts/

https://monevator.com/ho...-buy-index-linked-gilts/
3 users thanked Cm258 for this post.
Peanuts on 02/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC), Tim D on 08/03/2025(UTC)
Peanuts
Posted: 02 March 2025 20:07:47(UTC)
#5

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,474

Thanks: 2446 times
Was thanked: 2391 time(s) in 917 post(s)
ben ski;336274 wrote:
I think as a rule, obviously, you have to know enough about an asset class that you could be a guest speaker at Yale on it, before it's wise to invest.

The classic pattern here is people will convince you you need something, then it'll have an up, down or sideways 5 years, and general consensus will be "Wish I hadn't listened to that!"

Inflation-linked bonds are basically bonds, but you're calculating your returns in real terms, rather than nominal. So you buy at 1.5%, and you will make 1.5% after inflation. The problem with the Vanguard fund is an effective average duration around 15 years. A lot of the long-dated bonds that make up that index are bought by insurers and endowments, with long-term liabilities to match. So I don't know that that duration makes the most sense for a retirement investor. You can effectively reduce its duration by having say 10% in that fund, and 10% in a short-duration gilt fund or MMF, and rebalancing. But this is where you have to know a bit of theory. In principle, I'd say having your bonds split 50:50 inflation-linked and nominal makes good sense. (Personally, I don't actually like or hold bonds – I prefer cash, gold and defensive equities, but I let CGT and PNL make active decisions on IL bonds.)



Thanks Ben. Valid point on knowing enough about an asset class before investing in it. One reason why I’ve never thought IL bonds matter too much is LifeStrategy20 only having approx 5-6% of them in it. I need to spend a bit of time reading up on them
2 users thanked Peanuts for this post.
ben ski on 02/03/2025(UTC), AlanT on 03/03/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 02 March 2025 20:40:59(UTC)
#6

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,352

Thanks: 426 times
Was thanked: 3887 time(s) in 1012 post(s)
Peanuts;336280 wrote:
ben ski;336274 wrote:
I think as a rule, obviously, you have to know enough about an asset class that you could be a guest speaker at Yale on it, before it's wise to invest.

The classic pattern here is people will convince you you need something, then it'll have an up, down or sideways 5 years, and general consensus will be "Wish I hadn't listened to that!"

Inflation-linked bonds are basically bonds, but you're calculating your returns in real terms, rather than nominal. So you buy at 1.5%, and you will make 1.5% after inflation. The problem with the Vanguard fund is an effective average duration around 15 years. A lot of the long-dated bonds that make up that index are bought by insurers and endowments, with long-term liabilities to match. So I don't know that that duration makes the most sense for a retirement investor. You can effectively reduce its duration by having say 10% in that fund, and 10% in a short-duration gilt fund or MMF, and rebalancing. But this is where you have to know a bit of theory. In principle, I'd say having your bonds split 50:50 inflation-linked and nominal makes good sense. (Personally, I don't actually like or hold bonds – I prefer cash, gold and defensive equities, but I let CGT and PNL make active decisions on IL bonds.)



Thanks Ben. Valid point on knowing enough about an asset class before investing in it. One reason why I’ve never thought IL bonds matter too much is LifeStrategy20 only having approx 5-6% of them in it. I need to spend a bit of time reading up on them


I think part of the issue is that things that happen with rates and inflation tend to play out over really long periods. Rates and inflation have spent the best part of 40 years just doing one thing. So you really need a lot of market history to get a good range of things happening – and index-linked gilts have only been around since about 1996.

We know how they'd have behaved in the 1970s, but you can't backtest unless you have simulated data. So most backtests that use IL bonds won't really tell you anything useful about them. And a lot of financial advisors and advisor platforms don't think like that – and will just use 20 years of data, not really thinking about changes in economic regime. So I'd say IL bonds appeal more to people who focus on the macro and theory side of investing.

One thing I'd say about LifeStrategy is, at least by all the theory and backtesting I can draw on, their bond allocation doesn't seem particularly optimal. It's just a bit of everything.


3 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Peanuts on 02/03/2025(UTC), S Dobbo on 03/03/2025(UTC), Tim D on 08/03/2025(UTC)
Peanuts
Posted: 03 March 2025 07:24:52(UTC)
#3

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,474

Thanks: 2446 times
Was thanked: 2391 time(s) in 917 post(s)
NPH;336273 wrote:


I am absolutely not an expert but I do have my own experience.
I had the defensive part of my portfolio in the HL recommended L&G Index Linked Gilt Index fund.
My view was it wouldn't do much but would be 'safe' in a downturn. Instead, it dropped 30% when interest rates went up in '22 and has lost a bit more in each of the two years since.
I can't say what would happen if rates do come down, but I would say you need to be very sure it's going to happen in a meaningful way.



22 has been covered many times. It was a ticking time bomb for bonds if we ever went into an inflationary period - which we did - and which bonds suffered - big style. There's always a risk at any given time but the landscape is much better for bonds today than when they were on negative yields in an ultra low interest rate environment.
Micawber
Posted: 03 March 2025 08:39:32(UTC)
#9

Joined: 27/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,974

Thanks: 963 times
Was thanked: 3430 time(s) in 1172 post(s)
Wife and I have some ITPS as ballast. It's done fairly well and rode out the turbulence when bonds reached 400 year record highs / record low yields. And subsequently dropped - scant surprise. I prefer a mix of ITPS and SGLN to PNL, where we have some residual holding. The mix has done way better than PNL these past few years thanks mainly to the gold ETF SGLN. The managers of PNL were underweight gold after years of being criticised for holding too much of that sluggish metal while stocks and bonds powered ahead...

PNL seems rather Harry Browne so why not go the full Harry Browne yourself, if that appeals?
2 users thanked Micawber for this post.
Peanuts on 03/03/2025(UTC), Tim D on 08/03/2025(UTC)
Mike ...
Posted: 03 March 2025 11:09:36(UTC)
#10

Joined: 16/03/2023(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 110 time(s) in 28 post(s)
It depends what you need them for.

I’ve got an Index-linked bond ladder covering my estimated annual spending from 55 out to age 75.

There is also a nominal gilt ladder on the shorter end.

And STMMF’s for the very short end.



The plan is for all the fixed income to gradually roll itself up to age 75 where everything (including the equities) will be switched in to an annuity to make life simple.

That said there’s over 20 years to go before I’m 75 so I’d be surprised if the investing landscape then looks like it does now.



1 user thanked Mike ... for this post.
Tim D on 08/03/2025(UTC)
2 Pages12Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets