There was quite a lot about the train deal in the FT

Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/...b49a.html#ixzz1Pf2YTmmI

"Theresa Villiers, rail minister, said the announcement was a major step forward for the Thameslink programme and would make life better for thousands of commuters.

“Today’s announcement is further proof of the Government’s commitment to investing in Britain’s future,” she said.

Introduction of the new, high-capacity trains will allow the route’s existing vehicles to be sent elsewhere in the UK, probably to provide services on routes from London Paddington and in north-west England currently due for electrification.

The trains will be built at Siemens’ factories in Germany, although Ms Villiers insisted the contract would still create up to 2,000 jobs in the UK, including 600 manufacturing components and 650 building two new depots.

Ms Villiers said she recognised many people in and around Derby would be disappointed by Bombardier’s losing out on the contract but that Siemens had offered a better deal for taxpayers."

Registering with the FT is free and lets you read up to 30 stories a month free of charge. It is well worth the small effort involved and you do not get spam.

Anyone in easy reach of Manchester might be interested in attending this:

Café Politique Manchester - Should we blame the bankers? Rethinking capitalism after the crash
Start date: 27 Jun 2011
End date: 27 Jun 2011

This Cafe Politique Manchester event will explore the root causes of the economic crisis and what the path forward might look like. We will ask big questions such as do we need to rethink economics and redesign global governance? We will also consider issues such as the need to put values back into business and the need to promote increased financial literacy and a society of competent economic citizens.

Café Politique events aim to generate discussion, debate and a convivial atmosphere. They seek to provide a space for people to think, share ideas and to have a lively and inclusive discussion. Each talk involves an interesting speaker or two who introduce their talk in an accessible and challenging way. We then open to the floor for comment and debate. We want to go beyond a rigid question and answer format, to allow broad participation. Our overall aim is to create an atmosphere where people can talk about the issues they feel passionately about and to open our minds to new ideas.
Speakers

Matthew Bishop, US Business Editor and New York Bureau Chief of The Economist and Michael Green, a writer, consultant and co-author of The Road from Ruin: a new capitalism for a Big Society will discuss their new book and the lessons to be learned from the economic crisis.

Contact:
Tamsin Crimmens
Media and Events Officer, IPPR North
Phone: +44 (0)191 233 9051
Email: t.crimmens@ippr.org

Events are usually held at the Café Muse (Manchester Museum on Oxford Road), handy for Oxford Road railway station and not far from Manchester Piccadilly.

engineertony

The prof says he is retired and works full time so is busy. He might be feeling miffed after I was a bit short with him yesterday on http://www.citywire.co.u...inflation-or-uk/b495679

You have very high standards for speakers and commentators! I would fail them. My experience of manual work extends to cleaning railway station toilets, loading newspaper wagons and painting the white lines on the edge of the platforms - which I did on my rest days from being a booking office clerk. Plus I worked in a computer company assembling HP 1000 mini computers and electronic tills, loading, maintaining and testing the software in between running a telephone customer help desk. It was that long ago, pre-internet. I did some hardware upgrading at a publishing company where I was assistant computer manager for a while but mostly it was help desk, user training and programming. I mentioned the HP 1000 because it was originally designed to operate in extreme conditions of desert oil fields and you might have come across it.

No individual is to blame for the reduction in manufacturing jobs, the sector has been a victim of its own efficiency. Manufacturing still accounts for nearly 25% of UK GDP but employs less than 15% of the workforce. Mechanisation, CAD, robotics, all have led to a huge reduction in the number of unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled roles in the manufacturing workforce. Therefore an efficient industry creates significantly less real wealth in the UK, especially given many of the firms now have foreign owners.

To go back to the original point of the thread, banking, or the more widely accepted financial services sector generates approaching 50% of GDP and employs a similar proportion of the workforce. Call centres, administration operations, IT support, branch staff, insurance underwriters, etc etc offer a wide variety of roles for school leavers, graduates etc, thereby spreading wealth through a wide base of society.

There have been many comments previously about competitive advantage etc, and that is unstoppable in a globalised world unless you wish to isolate yourself like Cuba or North Korea. We should not lament that our employment and GDP base has changed, we should be embracing our strengths, fostering our innovators and entreprenuers (whatever their industry), supporting our world leading businesses (including banks) and attempting to break the behavoirs of the welfare generation that are holding us back.

Jeremy,

Yes, I think we should teach moral philosophy in schools. It's certainly been accepted to screen paedophiles from childcare jobs, and with a bit of experience in interviews and an indirect questioning technique I might claim an above average rate of screening out bluffers & chancers. Hard to start a debate about indoctrination and brainwashing, better leave tjat one.

Prof

If I'm making cakes with a hand whisk and you have a mixer then you will make and sell more cakes and get richer. If the farmer invests in a tractor and plough with 6 rows and his neighbour is using a horse drawn plough then the first guy will produce more corn. If Siemens are using automated welding and assembly, and the guys at Derby are working by hand then the final price will be cheaper. I don't see that there's any need to lose jobs, if it's organised right then there's more goods and cheaper goods available. Everyone can have the good things of life, central heating, hot & cold water, car,TV, mobile phone, holidays in tropical parts. The national pool of goodies gets bigger. Economics in a nutshell, make what you need and distibute it using virtual gold coins as a means of exchange.

Root causes, I can only see from my blinkered engineer's point of view. Like any investment automation, robotics and CNC need sound long term investment understanding, many schemes have gone wrong. It needs brains at the top. Theresa Villiers is a lawyer used to the high court, she's in charge of transport policy....no way. Could an expert in transport, railway systems, traffic control, roads & airports may a good prosecutor in a court case. When a decision is made, the first impression may be a cost saving or a good deal for the taxpayer but in fact by helping to drive UK manufacturing to the wall, by affecting the hidden costs of rail & road transport for the haulage industry, and by spending money so that the profits go to a German manufacturer she's doing a lot of harm. The first effect of a decision is foloowed by a secondary and tertiary effect, similar to the point I made somewhere above about coordinating services, water, gas, electricity. It might look like we got the best deal at the time but in the longer term it needs some clever people to look ahead.

British governments/management/industry knew they had to train and automate 50 years ago, they chose finance. Now finance is wobbling they are not so sure. But it will continue as long as people are greedy and want things before they have earned them.

If I can lend you £1000 and get £1250 back after one year so that you have your car a year early, then long term you are the loser. You have paid £1250 for your car. Repeat this for your life and you are living on 80% of your earnings, and I'm having a good life on your interest, but I'm doing nothing, I've no involvment with your car or anything else, in fact if the whole population lived at 80% and I syphoned off the other 20% then I'm doing OK. I might pay a few staff, computer programmers, administation operators, insurance clerks and claim I'm providing employment but it's an illusion, they are all living on you because you are happy with 80% of what you earn (asssuming you are making something or providing a useful service like emptying bins).

Solution, soon, dinner's ready.