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Politics and Economics-2017 Election
King Lodos
Posted: 03 June 2017 19:29:34(UTC)
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jvl;47541 wrote:
No one resents skilled, English-speaking, doctors, nurses and teachers coming over here to live and work but immigrants from much poorer countries who come to the UK to work in low skill areas are clearly getting a good deal . They earn more money, have more benefits and opportunity. They can settle back easily in their home countries having saved enough in a short time to buy cheaper housing there. Furthermore, the amenities there improve every year partly because of money given by us.

It's a fair question to ask what are we getting and it's surprising that the elite don't really acknowledge it.


Just imagine if we were bringing in top graduates – to fill teaching, science, technology positions – in the numbers we're bringing unskilled workers in.

We've already got a generation of graduates finding it hard to get work – if we were flooding their job-spaces with people willing to work longer hours for less pay, I think the broadsheets would suddenly realise it's a problem.

A government's ultimate responsibility should be to its people. And mainstream media and academia (even more so in Europe) seem to be towing the Globalist party line, while demonising our own working classes by making any criticism of migration policy an issue of 'racism'.
3 users thanked King Lodos for this post.
Guest on 03/06/2017(UTC), Keith Hilton on 04/06/2017(UTC), jvl on 05/06/2017(UTC)
xcity
Posted: 03 June 2017 19:46:32(UTC)
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Prof Eman;47540 wrote:
If the donors have that much money to play with, a rise in corporation tax should not hurt them unduly, especially considering the levels of corporation tax they pay anyway.
Prof Eman;47548 wrote:
I am advised that the real issue behind this is whether Conservative donors run this country or elected MPs. Furthermore, some wonder about donor influence on donor paid for MPs.

I can't help but observe that your student informants appear only to be able to see one side of the coin, and an imaginary depiction of the coin at that. I hope, for your sake, that this very blinkered approach to situations was not a result of their education.

In this case, Tory donors tend to vary over the years with no direct payoffs. Most of them aren't much affected by corporation tax. A number were supportive of the Blair Labour Party. Trade Unions have a far more significant impact on the Labour party, being the deciding factor in the election of the last two leaders; they also directly sponsor a number of Labour MPs - and MPs have to compete for their support by espousing the union agenda.

All parties depend on donors to fund their campaigns. Membership fees etc aren't sufficient. Small donors haven't had much impact either. And the public is understandably antagonistic to the idea of having to fund politicians political campaigning out of taxation. So we are where we are.

You also, in passing, raise a more general point about corporation tax. There is a perception on the left that this is a large pot of potential money that is being left insufficiently taxed. Most governments, of all persuasions, would probably agree, but the problem is that corporation tax at high rates no longer works. Multinationals simply make all their profits abroad; Apple keep all their money abroad. Ireland has recovered from the financial crisis by attracting companies using a very low tax rate. There's a similar problem with the very rich.
And a not entirely unrelated issue with having higher rates of tax for higher earners.
You don't maximise the tax take by simply increasing tax rates, and it is only the tax take that is really important to governments. There is an optimum point; I'm not saying we are at it, but working out what it is is complex and subject to competition between countries.
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jvl on 05/06/2017(UTC)
xcity
Posted: 03 June 2017 19:53:26(UTC)
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Tony Peterson;47551 wrote:
Prof Eman's argument does no such thing.

I think it does. Simply a question of whether it is fair to buy influence by funding a party.
Tony Peterson;47551 wrote:
Trade unions represent millions of hard working people at the bottom end of the income spectrum.

Tory donors seem to be mostly aggressively tax-avoiding off-shore zillionaire individuals with very powerful vested interest in the status quo.

You are simply saying you prefer one side to the other.
Tony Peterson;47551 wrote:
Your comparison is offensive to doctors, nurses, teachers, firemen, servicemen, binmen, shop floor workers, and employees of the firms you have some part ownership of.

I don't think it is. Most of the union members I know are very critical of their unions political emphasis, and would much prefer them to support the members in the issues they are having on the shop floor.

A number of the leaders of the biggest unions are primarily driven by political ideology, rather than the actual concerns of their members.


3 users thanked xcity for this post.
Micawber on 03/06/2017(UTC), Alan Selwood on 03/06/2017(UTC), Martina on 04/06/2017(UTC)
Tony Peterson
Posted: 03 June 2017 20:11:31(UTC)
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xcity

I have, in my time, met many trade union leaders (in many countries).

Your post libels them.
Micawber
Posted: 03 June 2017 21:15:50(UTC)
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Tony Peterson;47559 wrote:
xcity

I have, in my time, met many trade union leaders (in many countries).

Your post libels them.


The point is that MPs from either of the two main parties are to a considerable degree dependent on the sources of their funds and, in the case of the Labour Party, considerable constitutional influence of the trades unions. And the leaderships of several of the largest unions are of the old-style, Marxist Leninist persuasion. I think that your doctors would agree.
4 users thanked Micawber for this post.
Alan Selwood on 03/06/2017(UTC), xcity on 03/06/2017(UTC), Martina on 04/06/2017(UTC), jvl on 05/06/2017(UTC)
Prof Eman
Posted: 03 June 2017 23:49:29(UTC)
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The conclusions of some is -
Conservatives- paid by the few for the few
Labour -paid by the many (substantially through Unions) for the many
1 user thanked Prof Eman for this post.
Tony Peterson on 04/06/2017(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 04 June 2017 02:07:21(UTC)
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Prof Eman;47562 wrote:
The conclusions of some is -
Conservatives- paid by the few for the few
Labour -paid by the many (substantially through Unions) for the many


A few years active trading soon teaches you things rarely work the way you think they should work.

The kind of Socialist policies Corbyn wants to enact have always wound up hurting the poor the most – as we see Greece voting for tougher austerity now, and the government using state pensions to service debt.

Always interesting to me the young middle-classes (the ones who least need it) generally want Socialism, while the working classes generally want to work and not pay too much in taxes.
Prof Eman
Posted: 04 June 2017 13:42:20(UTC)
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Corbyn has definitely got a battle on his hands when one considers his funding versus that of TM.
Keith Hilton
Posted: 04 June 2017 15:10:27(UTC)
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King Lodos;47555 wrote:
We've already got a generation of graduates finding it hard to get work – if we were flooding their job-spaces with people willing to work longer hours for less pay, I think the broadsheets would suddenly realise it's a problem.


We already are, although mostly it's through outsourcing. For many years, the company I worked for also directly employed a large number of Indian workers, although recently they've been looking more towards Poland, for various reasons - some of which will probably be scuppered by Brexit.
1 user thanked Keith Hilton for this post.
Mr J on 04/06/2017(UTC)
Ivor Grouse
Posted: 04 June 2017 19:14:24(UTC)
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Prof Eman;47562 wrote:
The conclusions of some is -

.......Labour -paid by the many (substantially through Unions) for the many



Others may conclude - a case of the blind leading the blind
1 user thanked Ivor Grouse for this post.
Keith Hilton on 04/06/2017(UTC)
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