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AJW
Posted: 18 September 2018 14:39:22(UTC)
#31

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No doubt some businesses will benefit, but you have not resolved the catastrophic issues that it will cause for some key UK industries.
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anglo29
Posted: 18 September 2018 15:02:52(UTC)
#32

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AJW;68831 wrote:
No doubt some businesses will benefit, but you have not resolved the catastrophic issues that it will cause for some key UK industries.




In the short term yes, there will be disruption for some industries. We should not be afraid of this.
How many of these key UK industries will fade with the onset of robotics anyway?. Technology is changing many things, and people need to get trained up and acquire new skill sets.

It's all a matter of confidence. We have many of the best entrepreneurs in this country, many of the best start up companies in the technology sector, the best financial services sector, the best designers etc.

We should not beat ourselves up over this and allow the purveyors of doom to dominate.
We do not need to be permanently attached to the apron strings of Brussels to survive. Business will win through in the end, despite the obstruction of unelected Euro politicians mainly concerned with the preservation of their own particular EU gravy train. In the end, they are not needed, that's what troubles them.
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2 users thanked anglo29 for this post.
jvl on 18/09/2018(UTC), Haleric on 03/10/2018(UTC)
Alexander Johnston
Posted: 02 October 2018 17:14:42(UTC)
#33

Joined: 22/09/2018(UTC)
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Catching fish in Scotland, sending them to China for gutting and then transporting them back to Scotland may be defensible in economic terms but is it environmentally sound?
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anglo29
Posted: 02 October 2018 19:09:05(UTC)
#34

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Alexander Johnston;69826 wrote:
Catching fish in Scotland, sending them to China for gutting and then transporting them back to Scotland may be defensible in economic terms but is it environmentally sound?



But is it really defensible in economic terms?

If local people were employed to do this, not only would it give them employment, good for the local economy, they'd be paying tax to the Scottish government, improving the country's finances.

With transportation costs both ways, I find it hard to believe the China operation makes it cheaper. Maybe cheaper for the fish processing companies not having to employ local people, but there is surely a wider picture here, the local value of being self-sufficient through the whole process being one of them.
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Alexander Johnston
Posted: 02 October 2018 19:21:44(UTC)
#35

Joined: 22/09/2018(UTC)
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anglo29;66948 wrote:
On a financial programme this morning, it emerged that the majority of cod caught in Scottish waters is exported to China to be filleted, then re-exported back to UK supermarkets for sale!



Are you sure that the report is accurate?
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anglo29
Posted: 02 October 2018 19:32:37(UTC)
#37

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Alexander Johnston;69839 wrote:
anglo29;66948 wrote:
On a financial programme this morning, it emerged that the majority of cod caught in Scottish waters is exported to China to be filleted, then re-exported back to UK supermarkets for sale!



Are you sure that the report is accurate?




It was a report on Radio 4 at the time. It also featured in Scottish and English newspapers.


I
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Tim D
Posted: 02 October 2018 19:56:45(UTC)
#36

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Alexander Johnston;69839 wrote:
anglo29;66948 wrote:
On a financial programme this morning, it emerged that the majority of cod caught in Scottish waters is exported to China to be filleted, then re-exported back to UK supermarkets for sale!


Are you sure that the report is accurate?


It's been true for years. See that 2009 newspaper piece I linked earlier in the thread.

Since then I've also come across the a 2008 House of Lords document The Progress of the Common Fisheries Policy which adds some fascinating details (search document for mentions of China). For example manual processing as can be afforded to be done in China will extract better quality fillets and use 45% of the fish rather than just 35% from the mechanical processing which is all that'd be economic in the developed world. (Interesting dillemma for greenies there... food miles are bad, but less food waste is good...)
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Alexander Johnston on 02/10/2018(UTC)
mark spurrier
Posted: 02 October 2018 20:20:36(UTC)
#38

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"If local people were employed to do this, not only would it give them employment, good for the local economy, they'd be paying tax to the Scottish government, improving the country's finances."

If local people were employed to do this? - Do you think they would work for £30/week - 12 hour shifts in a fish gutting factory?

let me think about that one?

Do you think everyone would like to pay the higher costs coming from Uk wages? Will te fishermen be cheerful that their catch isn't really wanted as it would be so expensive
Don't you think that the great unwashed would rather get cheaper cod imported from places that do use the Chinese?

You are also assuming that the cod is actually landed in UK rather than transferred to factory freezers in international waters

Just some thoughts
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Tim D on 02/10/2018(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 02 October 2018 21:49:11(UTC)
#41

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Here's a fascinating extract from that Lords Common Fishing Policy document (my bold):

Quote:
An interesting general statement that can be made is that we export what the UK fleet catches, and perhaps this is not always understood, and we import what we eat. For example, 90% of all the mackerel and the herring that we land goes eastwards as far as Japan and much of the whitefish that is landed in the north-east of Scotland, for example, you can see in the Madrid market. I was at the Madrid Seafood Market last year and it was like being in Scotland. So much of the product is exported and certainly an awful lot of the shellfish from the South Coast goes straight into vehicles and is exported to France and Spain. I mention the Nephrops as well. Even though Nephrops is the major species for us as processors in the UK, we only process about a third of it and the rest goes to the Continent, to France, Spain and Italy. It either goes fresh or frozen or as vivier—live—shipped straight down to Spain in particular. That is why I was saying earlier that when holidaymakers go to the Mediterranean they eat the nephrops and they think it is great, but it was landed in Scotland or Ireland. It is perverse, really.


(that's Q372, evidence from a Mr Morrison; Chair of the Food and Drink Federation Seafood Group and Technical Adviser to Foodvest)

After that there's some interesting stuff about the economics of cod processing and UK processors have moved from bulk processing (insufficient volume now being landed) to high-quality product for niche markets. Apparently the bulk processing moved to Poland before it moved to China.
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mark spurrier
Posted: 03 October 2018 01:21:55(UTC)
#42

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Tim D;69854 wrote:
Here's a fascinating extract from that Lords Common Fishing Policy document (my bold):

Quote:
An interesting general statement that can be made is that we export what the UK fleet catches, and perhaps this is not always understood, and we import what we eat. For example, 90% of all the mackerel and the herring that we land goes eastwards as far as Japan and much of the whitefish that is landed in the north-east of Scotland, for example, you can see in the Madrid market. I was at the Madrid Seafood Market last year and it was like being in Scotland. So much of the product is exported and certainly an awful lot of the shellfish from the South Coast goes straight into vehicles and is exported to France and Spain. I mention the Nephrops as well. Even though Nephrops is the major species for us as processors in the UK, we only process about a third of it and the rest goes to the Continent, to France, Spain and Italy. It either goes fresh or frozen or as vivier—live—shipped straight down to Spain in particular. That is why I was saying earlier that when holidaymakers go to the Mediterranean they eat the nephrops and they think it is great, but it was landed in Scotland or Ireland. It is perverse, really.


(that's Q372, evidence from a Mr Morrison; Chair of the Food and Drink Federation Seafood Group and Technical Adviser to Foodvest)

After that there's some interesting stuff about the economics of cod processing and UK processors have moved from bulk processing (insufficient volume now being landed) to high-quality product for niche markets. Apparently the bulk processing moved to Poland before it moved to China.



The subject of my Masters thesis..........The uninitiated think of trawlermen in their little boats (Iwas one of that merry, frozen and dirt poor brigade) in fact it is intensely commercial, owned by multinational food combines. there is a massive difference between the 40' overnight inshore boats and the UK Fishing Industry which is a truly industrial automated and computerised operation
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Tim D on 03/10/2018(UTC)
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