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Lifetime Mortgages
DIY Investing
Posted: 01 January 2020 12:59:47(UTC)
#1

Joined: 29/09/2018(UTC)
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My Father-in-law is considering taking out a lifetime mortgage in order to purchase a bungalow that is of slightly higher value than their current property. I am instinctively cautious and sceptical when it comes to this sort of thing.

My understanding is that:

- Nothing is payable in their lifetime, but interest rates are at around 4%, and this compounds until payment is due.
- Payment is due upon death or upon going into permenant care.
- most lifetime mortgages come with negative equity protection.

Do any members have any experience of this kind of product?

Are they legit, or are they just another way to rip off older people?

Is there anything I'm missing?

My thoughts are that, even with the compounding interest on the mortgage, if house prices continue to go up with inflation, the overall cost shouldn't be massive, and it may be a way for them to acquire a property that will be more suitable for them in their old age. But I'd appreciate any input from members.
jeffian
Posted: 01 January 2020 18:50:40(UTC)
#2

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I have huge reservations about "Equity Release" where someone is withdrawing the equity in their home to live on, but in this case the money being raised will be reinvested in property. Effectively, your father-in-law is simply saying that he would like to defer his mortgage interest payments and roll up the interest to be repaid on death, sale of the property or going into care. It depends, of course, on what Loan/Value ratio he is talking about, his age and other circumstances, but if he goes into it with his eyes open and understanding how compound interest works, it sounds ok to me. At 4%, his debt will double in 18 years and treble in 28 years (please correct me if I'm wrong, someone!) but he will retain any growth in the value of the asset. I've been thinking of the same thing myself as part of IHT planning to make lifetime gifts to my family and reduce the value of my residuary estate.
3 users thanked jeffian for this post.
Sara G on 01/01/2020(UTC), DIY Investing on 01/01/2020(UTC), D T on 02/01/2020(UTC)
Alexander Johnston
Posted: 01 January 2020 23:42:34(UTC)
#3

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I'm instinctively cautious on this sort of thing as well. I have no experience of it but there are some perhaps obvious things to ponder.
Presumably your father-in-law will have to sell one bungalow and buy another and incur the transactional costs. Inevitably the new bungalow will require some perhaps unforeseen expenditures.
Presumably he will only be taking out a mortgage to cover the additional price of the new property. Obviously the smaller this is the better.
Will his existing bungalow sell relatively quickly and is he reasonably confident he will get his asking price?
Is the 4% fixed?
4% seems high to me.
Is the disruption really worth it given their age?
1 user thanked Alexander Johnston for this post.
DIY Investing on 02/01/2020(UTC)
DIY Investing
Posted: 02 January 2020 06:39:48(UTC)
#4

Joined: 29/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 3,828

Alexander Johnston;100207 wrote:
I'm instinctively cautious on this sort of thing as well. I have no experience of it but there are some perhaps obvious things to ponder.
Presumably your father-in-law will have to sell one bungalow and buy another and incur the transactional costs. Inevitably the new bungalow will require some perhaps unforeseen expenditures.
Presumably he will only be taking out a mortgage to cover the additional price of the new property. Obviously the smaller this is the better.
Will his existing bungalow sell relatively quickly and is he reasonably confident he will get his asking price?
Is the 4% fixed?
4% seems high to me.
Is the disruption really worth it given their age?


Their current property is a two story house on a very steep hill. The reason for the potential move to the bungalow is my Mother-In-Law's deteriorating mobility. If it wasn't for that, they probably wouldn't want to move.

The transactional costs would be rolled up into the mortgage, but even then, they would only be borrowing around £30k max against a £260k property.

The current house is in a desirable location and would likely sell very quickly. The price he expects he will get for it is on the low side based on current prices in the area, so he should get at least that amount.

The bungalow is in very good shape and wouldn't need much,if anything, doing to it. Their current house, on the other hand, needs some work. Mainly cosmetic, but the wiring could also do with updating. This is probably one of the main reasons for the difference in price between the two properties.

The 4% is fixed for for the entirety of the mortgage. I've seen rates at around 3%, but I don't know if these cheaper rates are fixed, and whether these mortgages have the same protections. But yes he would need to shop around.
2 users thanked DIY Investing for this post.
Alexander Johnston on 02/01/2020(UTC), Foxtrot on 02/01/2020(UTC)
Alexander Johnston
Posted: 02 January 2020 10:43:37(UTC)
#5

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This seems to stack-up reasonably well.
I once got a loan FROM my father-in-law. He had a legal contract drawn up and he charged me a low rate of interest.
philip gosling
Posted: 02 January 2020 11:46:15(UTC)
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Sorry but the obvious & perhaps cheapest solution would be for you (with other family members) to provide the extra £30,000 either through a mortgage on your property or joint mortgage and ownership of the new one). That way the asset stays in the family
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DIY Investing on 02/01/2020(UTC), NoMoreKickingCans on 02/01/2020(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 02 January 2020 22:00:02(UTC)
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I would say try and think this one through as a family.

I know it can be very challenging because an older generation can want to continue making all their own decisions without discussion with their offspring. People want to continue to believe they are independent, fully knowledgeable and aware, and can make the best decisions without input from anybody else. And indeed can want to make decisions impacting other younger family members without seeing a reason to consult those younger people (youth always equalling less wise even to an 80 year old with a 55 year old child). But in my view there are many cases where a family can do better to work together financially rather than acting solely individually - if they have the maturity to do so.

I would be very wary about all the details of an equity release contract. When the property rises in value does the debt also rise proportionately. E.g. You always owe 10% of the property value, so you borrow 30k, the house doubles over the next 15 years and you then owe 60k plus 15 years of compound interest as well. The salesman is perhaps likely to approach the father at least once a year offering to release more equity in a special time limited offer, and at some point he may succumb to afford a treat or a knee operation without waiting, or a shiny brand new car, or just through becoming senile. Then after 15 years you find the loan company own 60% of the property. There may also be considerable admin fees, closure fees, review fees, repayment fees etc etc.

You can get a ten year fixed rate mortgage today for maybe 2.2%. So this gives an annual mortgage interest charge of just £660 pa on a £30k loan. I think it would seem odd if the family couldn’t stump up £55 a month between them to cover the mortgage interest, and indeed perhaps worrying that your father’s budget is so tight he cant afford £660 on interest payments. Likely cheaper to loan your father the money with a formal loan document as already suggested above.

I would also be inclined to seek some involvement in the property sale. Older people can be too willing to take less than the going rate because they want to avoid stress, hassle etc. But it does them no good if they lose £20k or £30k on their sale in a desperate attempt to ensure they get what they may see as ‘the only bungalow in the world’.

2 users thanked NoMoreKickingCans for this post.
DIY Investing on 02/01/2020(UTC), Tim D on 02/01/2020(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 04 January 2020 11:45:11(UTC)
#8

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DIY,

Based on your posts, I would suggest you check out interest-only lifetime mortgages; these operate like the usual equity-release mortgages in that the loan is only repaid upon death or sale, but the interest is payable monthly (as in an ordinary mortgage).
The advantage is that the capital sum owed does not increase (so the 30K in your example stays the same) and your father in law only pays the interest; of course this is assuming he can afford these payments.

These loans are relatively new, but major insurance companies such as Sun Life offer them - it might be worth while checking them out.
1 user thanked D Bergman for this post.
DIY Investing on 04/01/2020(UTC)
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