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RIT capital partners
Aminatidi
Posted: 24 August 2024 10:50:03(UTC)

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
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Just to clarify I don't hold RIT.

I did have a couple of dabbles/punts/experiments/good ideas at the time or whatever but they were small and short lived to the point that I can't remember for the life of me how much and what the profit or loss was as the contract note emails from HL don't have that detail in them.

Either way it's not for me either in terms of either fees or where I'm at right now 👍🏻
1 user thanked Aminatidi for this post.
MartynC on 25/08/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 24 August 2024 12:07:08(UTC)

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Aminatidi;316777 wrote:
Just to clarify I don't hold RIT.

I did have a couple of dabbles/punts/experiments/good ideas at the time or whatever but they were small and short lived to the point that I can't remember for the life of me how much and what the profit or loss was as the contract note emails from HL don't have that detail in them.

Either way it's not for me either in terms of either fees or where I'm at right now 👍🏻


It’s interesting that you were interested on a premium and a different of 30% plus discount and you are not interested.

I am sure you are buying Trusts with similar holdings….. not sure of the logic.

Do you or others have a view/thanks on my above comments or am I wasting my time offering my views. Maybe if I wrote pages and pages this would change.
2 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Aminatidi on 24/08/2024(UTC), MartynC on 25/08/2024(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 24 August 2024 12:13:06(UTC)

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I was simply saying I don't hold RIT any more because on the last page my name was mentioned.

It's all in passives at the moment - that's the start and the end of my point 👍🏻
2 users thanked Aminatidi for this post.
Big boy on 24/08/2024(UTC), MartynC on 25/08/2024(UTC)
Mr GL
Posted: 25 August 2024 09:11:19(UTC)

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sorry - I know this is an ugly table... and its just from a list of names I have on a monitor from start of 2020... but it is using 5 year total return performance data from the AIC website, NAV and SP... and comparing with the discount (premium is a -vs number) moves since start of 2020 - approx as I have just eyeballed from HL charts...

HGT is best NAV return - +133%, and discount is unchanged, PCT 120% discount 9 wider (from 0 to 9),

there are a lot of wider discounts here... and even for the top performers in NAV TR... and surprisingly the lowest NAV TR haven't performed too differently in terms of discount change (eg HGT, PCT and SMT 133, 120 and 79% NAV TR have seen similar discount widening to JMG, FGT and TRY with only 14,10 and 1% NAV TR).

RCP has a similar 5yr NAV Tr of 36% to SSON of 33% and INPP of 32% - RCP discount +24 SSON +13 and INPP +25

CLDN with a 64% NAV TR has a 16% wider discount - FCIT and JUGI have similar NAV TR but they are 5 wider and 5 tighter..

PIN with a 73% NAV TR is showing a 19% wider discount - its NAV return is stronger than AGT at 67% but AGT's discount is only 1 wider..

So - are PIN, SSON, INPP all family controlled trusts and this explains why their discounts are so much wider - irrespective of their relative NAV TR performance?

I guess my point is - there is not a simple - catch all - explanation - the discount widening cannot be simply explained by performance nor family ownership (as this hasn't significantly changed for CLDN and RCP over the last 5 years)... it may be partly explained by the illiquidity of their underlying investments (RCP and CLDN hold high % in private equity... so does PIN... but wait so does HGT... INPP holds illiquid investments...). It can't be explained by the changed interest rate environment - as this has changed for all these trusts... It can't be explained by difference in fees - as again these haven't changed over the last 5 years for these investment trusts...

off for a bike ride with the kids... enjoy the sunshine..

table organised by 5yr NAV TR - best at the top...the next number is the absolute change in discount (positive is wider)...

name 5yr NAV TR Disc. chge Start2020 now 5yr SP TR

HGT 133 0 0 0 176
PCT 120 6 4 10 107
SMT 79 9 0 9 57
PIN 73 19 15 34 41
AGT 67 1 8 9 72
CLDN 64 16 17 33 40
FCIT 62 5 3 8 57
JUGI 62 -5 10 5 88
RCP 36 24 4 28 -2
SSON 33 13 -3 10 17
INPP 32 25 -10 15 5
CGT 22 4 -2 2 17
JMG 14 4 7 11 11
FGT 10 10 -1 9 1
TRY 1 8 0 8 0
8 users thanked Mr GL for this post.
bill xxxx on 25/08/2024(UTC), Taltunes on 25/08/2024(UTC), Aminatidi on 25/08/2024(UTC), Phil 2 on 25/08/2024(UTC), William P on 26/08/2024(UTC), L.P. on 26/08/2024(UTC), Rocca Billy on 27/08/2024(UTC), Auric on 27/08/2024(UTC)
Mr GL
Posted: 16 September 2024 06:40:35(UTC)

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using 1812p sp the discount is 29.8%.... "Year to date, RIT's NAV per share total return was +7.2%."

RIT Capital Partners plc (LEI: P31Q1NLTW35JJGHA4667)

16 September 2024

31 August 2024 Net Asset Value

RIT Capital Partners plc ("RIT") announces that its unaudited diluted net asset value ("NAV") as at 31 August 2024 (with debt at fair value) was 2,580p per £1 ordinary share (31 July 2024: 2,560p).

August 2024 Commentary and Highlights

RIT's NAV per share total return for August 2024 was +0.8%. The increase in the value of our portfolio was driven by positive performance across each of our three strategic investment pillars including Quoted Equities, Private Investments and Uncorrelated Strategies. Our meaningful US dollar position detracted from returns as sterling strengthened by 2.1%. Year to date, RIT's NAV per share total return was +7.2%.

RIT's positive performance for August was delivered against a volatile backdrop for global equities in the period. Global equity markets saw a meaningful correction at the start of the month as US unemployment numbers rose, while the Yen strengthened as the Bank of Japan prepared the market for further interest rate hikes. However, calm returned to the markets later in August as the US reported better employment figures and better than expected retail sales. European equities were choppy throughout the month but ended in positive territory, while Chinese domestic equities continued to lag the wider market.

Specific highlights for August include:

·
An increase in the value of our Quoted Equities book was driven by a range of contributing factors across both direct and underlying managers. This included gains from companies in our Quality theme, as well as ongoing upside from our exposure to specialist managers in Japan which continued to contribute positively to our performance despite the volatility seen in the TOPIX during August. Our portfolio hedges were also additive in the month despite the overall market finishing in the positive.

·
Private Investments were a solid contributor during the month, driven by gains from our private funds which saw an increase in Q2 valuations. As of 31 August, 97% of our private funds were held at 30 June reported valuations.

·
Investments in Uncorrelated Strategies also contributed positively to our total return for August, driven largely by holdings in credit managers and equity market neutral managers.

·
The Board of RIT continued its active buyback programme, generating a further accretive impact on the NAV per share and taking the volume of shares repurchased on behalf of shareholders to approximately 2.2 million for the year to 31 August 2024. Since the start of 2023, the Board has bought back nearly 7% of RIT's issued share capital, representing one of the largest share buybacks in the industry.
9 users thanked Mr GL for this post.
Ian Eccles on 16/09/2024(UTC), William P on 16/09/2024(UTC), L.P. on 16/09/2024(UTC), Sheerman on 16/09/2024(UTC), bill xxxx on 16/09/2024(UTC), dlp6666 on 16/09/2024(UTC), Rocca Billy on 16/09/2024(UTC), Mr Bean on 16/09/2024(UTC), Auric on 16/09/2024(UTC)
Ian Eccles
Posted: 16 September 2024 06:59:50(UTC)

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You have to give credit with regard to their buy back program, it might not be working but theirs is not the only one, the discount is one of life's great mysteries which the great and the good are trying to solve.A big disappointment in my portfolio but we live in hope for better days.
2 users thanked Ian Eccles for this post.
William P on 16/09/2024(UTC), Mr GL on 16/09/2024(UTC)
Mr Bean
Posted: 16 September 2024 09:05:45(UTC)

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Ian Eccles;319182 wrote:
You have to give credit with regard to their buy back program, it might not be working but theirs is not the only one, the discount is one of life's great mysteries which the great and the good are trying to solve. A big disappointment in my portfolio but we live in hope for better days.


I am not sure I agree. Their buyback plan in the main issue. They have £4,000m of assets but yet they buy typically £0.2m (10,000 shares) a day and often with gaps. This is a tiny percentage compared with BM Macro and RICA. There is no better investment for them than buying their own shares and booking a +25% immediate gain. So why won't they do it?

Their problems are they know they have gone too far into the very early stage PE/VC and can't get out. If they free up cash from listed equites or uncorrelated strategies it skews the portfolio profile further. Plus it is management fees on management fees.

The only positive is the discount is so large you almost get the PE/VC stuff for free.

I just don't see what will close the discount without upping the buybacks. They have only bought back 1.5% of their shares in the last 12mths (the 7% quote is a little disingenuous).
4 users thanked Mr Bean for this post.
Alistair Binks on 16/09/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/09/2024(UTC), Taltunes on 16/09/2024(UTC), Rookie Investor on 16/09/2024(UTC)
Mr Bean
Posted: 16 September 2024 11:31:01(UTC)

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Risk of ranting a bit but..

All these PE houses keep saying there is no activity and they can't get IPOs away so they can't do buybacks or return cash. Broadly all equity markets are close to all time highs - so there is huge demand for equities of most descriptions.

To my mind the reason they can't get IPOs away is that they will be demanding even higher valuations than the current market and the buyers are saying 'no I am not paying that much' plus all your recent IPOs were massively over-priced/leveraged and crashed like a stone in the subsequent periods.

This just leaves me thinking that the NAVs are simply un-realistic - I am sure the spreadsheet calculation makes sense in isolation but it is still far above market value so no-one will actually pay it. Hence the huge PE discounts that are becoming embedded. Selling at small selected share holding at NAV every so often does not demonstrate that the rest of the portfolio is fairly valued.
2 users thanked Mr Bean for this post.
Rookie Investor on 16/09/2024(UTC), AlanT on 22/09/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 16 September 2024 12:21:48(UTC)

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
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Remember as a Family controlled Trust many professional buyers are precluded from buying and its not in the Companies interest to buyback shares... In order for the IPO market to move we have to wait for the markets to move to-wards overbought. This will happen as investors see past performance figures and more cash is moved into market as they gain confidence.

Remember we were seeing many REITs on say 40% discount but this has narrowed as we see more and more M&A in sector. What I find interesting why are these bidders paying say 10% discount now when we were buying on 40% plus discount.

The cash from these varies bids will come back into the market and IT/IC SPs will rise. At some stage the net buying will top out and just before this the IPOs will come to the market.
bill xxxx
Posted: 16 September 2024 13:30:57(UTC)

Joined: 17/12/2011(UTC)
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Mr Bean - yes, it may well be that the market will need to be reassured that it’s not being stuffed by the PE guys, they’ll probably want to see the first ones going well.
Might quibble a bit over your comment on broad equity strength- comparing the s&p with the equal weighted one ie cutting back the M7 - eyeballing the HL chart suggests that markets only got back to their 22 levels last January. Then up 10% by April, but gone nowhere since then, with people apparently worrying about the usual suspects, maybe market has peaked etc etc.
I’ve no idea, but maybe equities investors aren’t really that much on the feed. Others will have a clearer view than me.
3 users thanked bill xxxx for this post.
Sheerman on 16/09/2024(UTC), Mr Bean on 16/09/2024(UTC), AlanT on 22/09/2024(UTC)
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