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Robin
Posted: 05 January 2023 18:20:09(UTC)
#691

Joined: 06/07/2009(UTC)
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Newbie;252694 wrote:
I have said on many occasions RIT is not a WP fund. It never has been.

It got banded a WP fund recently; and that too by the journalists.

Some paper pushing genius must have glanced at it and thought of the gimmick that because it is linked to the Rothschild family by association, they cannot be interested in anything that loses money. It is almost the same as saying that SJP has an association with the family and that we should buy SJP shares.

There is nothing apart from the long term return (smoothed out) to suggest that RIT is a WP fund. IT has only been banded a WP fund recently and for the life of me cannot put my finger on why !!



From the website... https://www.ritcap.com/about-us ...

Our corporate objective is to deliver long-term capital growth, while preserving shareholders’ capital; to invest without the constraints of a formal benchmark, but to deliver for shareholders increases in capital value in excess of the relevant indices over time.

Therefore we aim to deliver healthy participation in up markets with reasonable protection in down markets. Over time this should allow us to compound ahead of markets through the cycles.

Since inception, we have participated in 76% of monthly market upside but only 40% of the market declines. A shareholder who invested in RIT at inception has seen a share price total return of 11.8% per annum, which represents a meaningful outperformance of global equity markets.

So growth is the primary aim. Anyone considering it as capital preservation at times of market stress should have looked at Q1 2020. In my humble and honest, the way to regard RCP is as an outsourced self-contained portfolio designed to steadily grow wealth over time. James Carthew came up with the most apt description for me - a family office in a box.

https://citywire.com/wea...investment-trust-insider
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11 users thanked Robin for this post.
Newbie on 05/01/2023(UTC), Tim D on 05/01/2023(UTC), Logic Prophets on 05/01/2023(UTC), Mostly Retired on 05/01/2023(UTC), SF100 on 05/01/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 05/01/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 05/01/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 05/01/2023(UTC), Dexi on 06/01/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 06/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 06/01/2023(UTC)
TJL
Posted: 05 January 2023 19:40:52(UTC)
#695

Joined: 14/03/2011(UTC)
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Long term obviously means different things to different people.
Despite RIT's short term volatility and potential tradeability, is it a long term hold?
That's the bottom line.
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Jesse M on 05/01/2023(UTC)
Alfa 2
Posted: 05 January 2023 20:16:57(UTC)
#698

Joined: 17/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 153
If considered in the global sector as suggested, the NAV total return over the last ten years is similar to a lot of the global investment trusts according to the AIC but I am not sure how the charges and performance fees affect that, if at all. It is clearly a very complex and diverse trust and I imagine it behaves differently to other global trusts in various market conditions and may well survive some stock market catastrophe better than most but I am no expert.
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Thrugelmir
Posted: 05 January 2023 21:03:42(UTC)
#693

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,316
Tug Boat;252695 wrote:
People are trading in and out of it, it can’t be a WP.


Pump and dump the US style of investing. At least no one gets hurt while you rob them.
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Peanuts
Posted: 06 January 2023 08:05:46(UTC)
#699

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,474
out of interest where are you guys buying/holding/trading RCP? I've just looked at the costs on Hargreaves L and the average annual charge is 5-53%. Seems quite punchy

https://www.hl.co.uk/sha...s-plc-ordinary-gbp/costs
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smg8
Posted: 06 January 2023 09:04:15(UTC)
#696

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TJL;252711 wrote:
Long term obviously means different things to different people.
Despite RIT's short term volatility and potential tradeability, is it a long term hold?
That's the bottom line.


With a fee structure meaning they keep circa 80% of any gains, any outperformance would need to be significant for a long term investor to see net benefit versus alternative options.

The last 3 years (short term of course, but a volatile period during which something like this should theoretically come into it's own) has seen a total return to investors of -0.36% annualised, whilst being charged 5% ish p/annum for the privilege. Zooming out to 5 years we have 1.82% returns. Over 15 years it's behind Capital Gearing Trust (6.07% vs 6.84%) with quite a bit more volatility.

I was educated by MR GL on the trading potential of this investment and have seen first hand him and others successfully make money in the short term by trading RCP (kudos to the traders and I hope their success continues - clearly disconnect between NAV and SP is presenting them some opportunities).

For me personally I see something that over the last 10 or so years has returned far less than 100% equities in the good times, and dropped far more than 100% equities in the bad.

That doesn't align with what I want from my investments, though again to be clear (and avoid acrimony with those assessing it differently) accept this presents opportunities to others.


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13 users thanked smg8 for this post.
Jesse M on 06/01/2023(UTC), S Dobbo on 06/01/2023(UTC), Keith Cobby on 06/01/2023(UTC), Tim D on 06/01/2023(UTC), TJL on 06/01/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 06/01/2023(UTC), Logic Prophets on 06/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 06/01/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 06/01/2023(UTC), Mostly Retired on 06/01/2023(UTC), Robin on 06/01/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 06/01/2023(UTC), William P on 06/01/2023(UTC)
Busy doing nothing
Posted: 06 January 2023 09:11:32(UTC)
#701

Joined: 01/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 372
There is an article in yesterdays Telegraph regarding RIT in the quester column if anyone interested.
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Keith Cobby
Posted: 06 January 2023 09:28:23(UTC)
#702

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Perhaps with the lack of transparency and high fees it should be recategorised as a hedge fund.
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2 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
Mostly Retired on 06/01/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 06/01/2023(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 06 January 2023 09:34:50(UTC)
#703

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,467
RCP heading for 12-month lows as I write. Looks like my little short-term gamble is another one for the bottom drawer
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William P
Posted: 06 January 2023 09:38:52(UTC)
#704

Joined: 18/09/2018(UTC)
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When I bought more RCP in December I said I would sell if it were to rise. I missed the opportunity to sell recently when the price rose, mainly because I was busy in work.

Just added another £20K in the ISA @ 1966.

If it rises again I fully intend to sell this time.
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6 users thanked William P for this post.
Sheerman on 06/01/2023(UTC), MartynC on 06/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 06/01/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 06/01/2023(UTC), Mr Bean on 06/01/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 06/01/2023(UTC)
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