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RIT capital partners
Mr GL
Posted: 17 February 2023 13:59:36(UTC)

Joined: 18/10/2020(UTC)
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Robin;258054 wrote:
I'm out. This could be the worst decision made in some time. I have been faithful to RIT for such a long time on the basis this trust will always come good. But my concern is that it will not easily recover from the damaged sentiment towards it for some time - I held expecting some sort of bounce before now, but the lack of that bounce (watch this space) suggests to me a shift in feeling towards RIT. Having read and considered carefully I have reached the point where I would not add today because I am not sure it can fulfill the role it had in my portfolio. Nothing lasts forever. I anticipate a bounce and a longer term recovery, but on everything I have read and looked at, I had already reduced by 2% to purchase Majedie, and have today moved the rest of my holding across to CLDN. Whatever happens to RIT from here, I am not comfortable holding and think CLDN (and hopefully MAJE) can fulfill the role RIT was supposed to play. Clearly this is not a 'trading' decision. Could be the point for you to all top up further.


Oh dear - sorry that this has been such a painful experience for you to cut at a loss after holding through all the ups and downs since the 2020 covid panics... I hope your alternate choices work out well for you...

Clearly - selfishly - I am hoping this is a 'capitulation Friday' and will prove to fit in with the expression 'it is often darkest before the dawn' type ...

7 users thanked Mr GL for this post.
Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Robin on 17/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Mr Bean on 17/02/2023(UTC), Guest on 17/02/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 19/02/2023(UTC), Auric on 19/02/2023(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 17 February 2023 14:10:57(UTC)

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
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Mr GL;258065 wrote:

using the end of dec NAV RIT's NAV TR has approximately matched the performance of VWRL over 10 years... (approximately - I dont have a way to precisely work out VWRL 10 year TR to compare with the AIC's 10yr TR figure for RIT of 140%. https://www.theaic.co.uk...al-partners/performance )


The era of cheap money and financial engineering has now past. This is one occasion where past performance is highly likely not to have any bearing on the immediate future. Valuations will be determined by actual financial performance and strength of balance sheet, not the momentum of money pumping asset prices ever higher. While manufacturing is outsourced to the cheapest denominator. Resulting in ever widening profit margins.

Seems that share trading volume activity on the LSE is currently down nearly 25% on March 2022. Appears that liquidity is in indeed beginning to dry up. Reducing market volatility in the process. .

7 users thanked Thrugelmir for this post.
Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Strangways on 17/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Andy JR on 17/02/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 17/02/2023(UTC), Guest on 17/02/2023(UTC), Auric on 19/02/2023(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 17 February 2023 14:18:50(UTC)

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
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smg8;258041 wrote:
Mr GL;258038 wrote:


A lot of seasoned and sensible heads on this site think I am bonkers for having 20% in RIT - they may be right


I am not seasoned or sensible, and nor do I think anyone is bonkers for thinking what they think/holding what they hold so I don't think I am the intended recipient of this comment.

However I do think it's a massive gamble to have 20% of a portfolio of your size in one holding. We know you have significant AUM and are in a position many would love to be in with respect to this.

So the idea of "gambling" 20% of it on the hope that the whole market is wrong and you are right seems to be a very high risk thing to do when you clearly don't "need" to.

I hope your bet comes off and the outcome is what you hope, but from your posts it comes across to an outsider as if it's more about you needing to prove you are right on this one rather than actually needing to take on such a high risk concentrated position for any other reason.


I'm very mindful of this quote from Warren Buffett whenever I see what feel to me like massive bets based on a hope a discount will narrow.

“Never risk what you have and need, for what you don’t have and don’t need.”.
5 users thanked Aminatidi for this post.
dlp6666 on 17/02/2023(UTC), SF100 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Keith Hilton on 17/02/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Guest on 22/03/2023(UTC)
Robin
Posted: 17 February 2023 14:37:10(UTC)

Joined: 06/07/2009(UTC)
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Mr GL;258067 wrote:
Robin;258054 wrote:
I'm out. This could be the worst decision made in some time. I have been faithful to RIT for such a long time on the basis this trust will always come good. But my concern is that it will not easily recover from the damaged sentiment towards it for some time - I held expecting some sort of bounce before now, but the lack of that bounce (watch this space) suggests to me a shift in feeling towards RIT. Having read and considered carefully I have reached the point where I would not add today because I am not sure it can fulfill the role it had in my portfolio. Nothing lasts forever. I anticipate a bounce and a longer term recovery, but on everything I have read and looked at, I had already reduced by 2% to purchase Majedie, and have today moved the rest of my holding across to CLDN. Whatever happens to RIT from here, I am not comfortable holding and think CLDN (and hopefully MAJE) can fulfill the role RIT was supposed to play. Clearly this is not a 'trading' decision. Could be the point for you to all top up further.


Oh dear - sorry that this has been such a painful experience for you to cut at a loss after holding through all the ups and downs since the 2020 covid panics... I hope your alternate choices work out well for you...

Clearly - selfishly - I am hoping this is a 'capitulation Friday' and will prove to fit in with the expression 'it is often darkest before the dawn' type ...



Yes, could just be a capitulation with big bounce to come, and you have managed funds before so presumably have a better handle on all this. I perhaps change my holdings around the edges a little too much, but generally not what I regard as my 'core' positions. This makes it psychologically harder - I sold current holdings at about breakeven in the end and have taken profit in the past - did sell briefly over the Covid drop, back in for 21 and never say never - but I think I just need to free myself of any sense of loyalty - did the same with SMT/FS/LTGE and that worked ok. As I say, for the moment I cannot see how the reason most people would have purchased RCP will re-establish itself easily - the premium perhaps related to the steady stewardship - but this has perhaps gone awol for the moment? At the end of the day who knows? I think I have done what feels right for me, and so be it.
8 users thanked Robin for this post.
Andy JR on 17/02/2023(UTC), SF100 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 17/02/2023(UTC), Guest on 17/02/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Jack Stratton on 18/02/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 19/02/2023(UTC), Helen L on 20/02/2023(UTC)
Strangways
Posted: 17 February 2023 15:07:02(UTC)

Joined: 23/12/2020(UTC)
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Robin;258074 wrote:
Mr GL;258067 wrote:
Robin;258054 wrote:
I'm out. This could be the worst decision made in some time. I have been faithful to RIT for such a long time on the basis this trust will always come good. But my concern is that it will not easily recover from the damaged sentiment towards it for some time - I held expecting some sort of bounce before now, but the lack of that bounce (watch this space) suggests to me a shift in feeling towards RIT. Having read and considered carefully I have reached the point where I would not add today because I am not sure it can fulfill the role it had in my portfolio. Nothing lasts forever. I anticipate a bounce and a longer term recovery, but on everything I have read and looked at, I had already reduced by 2% to purchase Majedie, and have today moved the rest of my holding across to CLDN. Whatever happens to RIT from here, I am not comfortable holding and think CLDN (and hopefully MAJE) can fulfill the role RIT was supposed to play. Clearly this is not a 'trading' decision. Could be the point for you to all top up further.


Oh dear - sorry that this has been such a painful experience for you to cut at a loss after holding through all the ups and downs since the 2020 covid panics... I hope your alternate choices work out well for you...

Clearly - selfishly - I am hoping this is a 'capitulation Friday' and will prove to fit in with the expression 'it is often darkest before the dawn' type ...



Yes, could just be a capitulation with big bounce to come, and you have managed funds before so presumably have a better handle on all this. I perhaps change my holdings around the edges a little too much, but generally not what I regard as my 'core' positions. This makes it psychologically harder - I sold current holdings at about breakeven in the end and have taken profit in the past - did sell briefly over the Covid drop, back in for 21 and never say never - but I think I just need to free myself of any sense of loyalty - did the same with SMT/FS/LTGE and that worked ok. As I say, for the moment I cannot see how the reason most people would have purchased RCP will re-establish itself easily - the premium perhaps related to the steady stewardship - but this has perhaps gone awol for the moment? At the end of the day who knows? I think I have done what feels right for me, and so be it.
If it falls further you can always buy back in at a cheaper price and feel very clever!
2 users thanked Strangways for this post.
Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Helen L on 20/02/2023(UTC)
Andy JR
Posted: 17 February 2023 15:15:17(UTC)

Joined: 10/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 301

The current climate of possibly higher interest rates to come and probably higher for longer due to sticky inflation just doesn’t look well for any PE investments. Don’t think the bottom is in yet for RCP.
Mr GL
Posted: 17 February 2023 15:26:45(UTC)

Joined: 18/10/2020(UTC)
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Andy JR;258081 wrote:
The current climate of possibly higher interest rates to come and probably higher for longer due to sticky inflation just doesn’t look well for any PE investments. Don’t think the bottom is in yet for RCP.


could well be right - but that wont just affect RIT and will affect all equities to a greater or lesser extent... higher and longer interest rates will have an anchoring effect on everything and those with the highest interest rate sensitivities will get hurt the most...
3 users thanked Mr GL for this post.
Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 18/02/2023(UTC), Auric on 19/02/2023(UTC)
Mr Bean
Posted: 17 February 2023 15:37:54(UTC)

Joined: 08/04/2021(UTC)
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I want to like RCP as a long term core but can't anymore. I have tailgated some of MR GL's discount trades in the past.

I looked through the holdings and was surprised that so much of the PE is actually VC - so very early stage and the direct PE investments are not household names - I had not heard of any of them.

So discount wise. The 40% of VC could be worth half (like other LPE's) so that is 20% discount. The rest of the funds (40%) all sound quite expensive so we are fees on fees in a fund of fund style. That at best would be a 5% discount (maybe 10%) so that is another say 3% overall discount.

This gives a worse case (but plausible) discount of 23% say.

But the problem is that the 60% non-VC is probably also over-valued (like most markets) so I would expect that side of the NAV to decline over the coming year and I have not attached any discount to that. So we could see further SP falls.

The VC funds probably will never get properly valued in this cycle so a largish discount will apply until we are out the otherside and things start getting floated/sold at good prices.

I think this would be a brilliant discount pay in normal markets but in over-valued markets it could take a long time to come good. Maybe better just to bet on the discount on HVPE? Might be a better risk/reward ratio?

I have my RCP money on BH Marco now - not a discount play but expect it to profit from this current market position unwinding.

I will most likely be wrong now and MR GL will make enough to buy a new 911 next month....
9 users thanked Mr Bean for this post.
Guest on 17/02/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 17/02/2023(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 17/02/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 17/02/2023(UTC), Rocca Billy on 17/02/2023(UTC), Mostly Retired on 18/02/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 18/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 18/02/2023(UTC), Auric on 19/02/2023(UTC)
Jack Stratton
Posted: 18 February 2023 07:55:30(UTC)

Joined: 24/01/2021(UTC)
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Judging by the pessimism in this thread I think RCP will soon bottom, about to reach "peak bad news". Not a week goes by without some "expert" publishing a hit article against it.
5 users thanked Jack Stratton for this post.
Rocca Billy on 18/02/2023(UTC), Levi Lam on 18/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 18/02/2023(UTC), Low Returns on 18/02/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 19/02/2023(UTC)
Jack Stratton
Posted: 20 February 2023 07:08:33(UTC)

Joined: 24/01/2021(UTC)
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RIT CAPITAL PARTNERS PLC (LEI: P31Q1NLTW35JJGHA4667)

20 February 2023

Net Asset Value

The unaudited diluted net asset value of RIT Capital Partners plc as at 31 January 2023 (with debt at fair value) was 2,440p per £1 ordinary share (31 December 2022: 2,388p).
12 users thanked Jack Stratton for this post.
Phil 2 on 20/02/2023(UTC), mdss68 on 20/02/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 20/02/2023(UTC), Helen L on 20/02/2023(UTC), Andy JR on 20/02/2023(UTC), Rocca Billy on 20/02/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 20/02/2023(UTC), Markkus on 20/02/2023(UTC), Big boy on 20/02/2023(UTC), Low Returns on 20/02/2023(UTC), ty bgt on 20/02/2023(UTC), Auric on 20/02/2023(UTC)
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