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Split Cap Jim
Posted: 16 December 2020 11:52:20(UTC)
#8

Joined: 30/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 235

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Keith Cobby;140738 wrote:
I gave up on PE as none of them can touch SMT and if they can't beat a good global fund then there is no point putting up with their lack of transparency and price volatility.


I think comparing any other trust against SMT is a harsh benchmark. In my case SMT is my largest individual holding and am still drip-feeding into it, but I'm more than happy to consider PE as a useful diversifier.

Currently we are generally seeing good NAV growth in most diversified PE trusts as the months progress.

If you consider a core typical benchmark of F&C (FCIT) or Bankers (BNKR) or a global tracker (SWDA) - over a 3 year period, the NAV TR performance vs current discount is (from trustnet)

SMT 166% (2% premium)
HGT 78% (1% premium)
3i 59% (26% premium)
APAX 47% (12% discount)
HVPE 45% (18% discount)
SLPE 39% (25% discount)
PEY 38% (17% discount)
NBPE 35% (25% discount)
PIN 34% (22% discount)
BNKR 30% (2% premium)
FCIT 28% 6% discount)
SWDA 33%

So I think there is still opportunities in the PE space.

Decided to buy some NBPE today as they have just announced another jump in NAV following the sale of largest investment.
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6 users thanked Split Cap Jim for this post.
Johan De Silva on 16/12/2020(UTC), Patrick Bollen on 19/12/2020(UTC), Christine Dudgeon on 23/12/2020(UTC), Mike L on 31/07/2021(UTC), Kenpen2 on 02/01/2022(UTC), Thrugelmir on 17/12/2022(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 16 December 2020 12:35:08(UTC)
#20

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,061
Reason for comparing PE to SMT is the expanding committment of BG to include unlisteds. If the general performance of PE was better than other trust sectors the volatility would be worth it, but it clearly isn't.
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lindsay Morrison2
Posted: 16 December 2020 13:28:18(UTC)
#21

Joined: 22/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 589

Thanks: 1669 times
Was thanked: 1550 time(s) in 460 post(s)
....only issue for me is that I cannot sleep at night knowing that 15% is invested in TESLA a company that is valued in some fantasy world that assumes it sells 50% of all cars in the world at a 20% margin never achieved in mainstream car history. I have loved SMT and held over 15 years for me and all my kids but i think James Anderson has succumbed and now presides as emperor in teflon birthday suit. Enjoy and good luck but I will sleep well and enjoy my 8%pa. PS I enjoy a little bit of diverse PE across ICP, PIN, HGT some hybrid through AGT/RIT/CLDN
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4 users thanked lindsay Morrison2 for this post.
low income investor on 16/12/2020(UTC), dlp6666 on 13/01/2021(UTC), D T on 30/03/2021(UTC), Thrugelmir on 12/09/2022(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 16 December 2020 14:06:16(UTC)
#12

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,679
Split Cap Jim;141952 wrote:
Keith Cobby;140738 wrote:
I gave up on PE as none of them can touch SMT and if they can't beat a good global fund then there is no point putting up with their lack of transparency and price volatility.


I think comparing any other trust against SMT is a harsh benchmark. In my case SMT is my largest individual holding and am still drip-feeding into it, but I'm more than happy to consider PE as a useful diversifier.

Currently we are generally seeing good NAV growth in most diversified PE trusts as the months progress.

If you consider a core typical benchmark of F&C (FCIT) or Bankers (BNKR) or a global tracker (SWDA) - over a 3 year period, the NAV TR performance vs current discount is (from trustnet)

SMT 166% (2% premium)
HGT 78% (1% premium)
3i 59% (26% premium)
APAX 47% (12% discount)
HVPE 45% (18% discount)
SLPE 39% (25% discount)
PEY 38% (17% discount)
NBPE 35% (25% discount)
PIN 34% (22% discount)
BNKR 30% (2% premium)
FCIT 28% 6% discount)
SWDA 33%

So I think there is still opportunities in the PE space.

Decided to buy some NBPE today as they have just announced another jump in NAV following the sale of largest investment.




I have just joined you in NBPE...thank you......maybe they have a bit of costly debt?...do you
know how the ex’s/cost of debt are apportioned???

SMT is looking very interesting......most investors are overconfident and over exposed (also very happy to pay a premium)..always a very good indicator that someone is going to make a killing. (Tech Boom) what happens when major conglomerates start unbundling and the professional start shorting.?
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Keith Cobby
Posted: 16 December 2020 14:22:32(UTC)
#9

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,061
Split Cap Jim;141952 wrote:
Keith Cobby;140738 wrote:
I gave up on PE as none of them can touch SMT and if they can't beat a good global fund then there is no point putting up with their lack of transparency and price volatility.


I think comparing any other trust against SMT is a harsh benchmark. In my case SMT is my largest individual holding and am still drip-feeding into it, but I'm more than happy to consider PE as a useful diversifier.

Currently we are generally seeing good NAV growth in most diversified PE trusts as the months progress.

If you consider a core typical benchmark of F&C (FCIT) or Bankers (BNKR) or a global tracker (SWDA) - over a 3 year period, the NAV TR performance vs current discount is (from trustnet)

SMT 166% (2% premium)
HGT 78% (1% premium)
3i 59% (26% premium)
APAX 47% (12% discount)
HVPE 45% (18% discount)
SLPE 39% (25% discount)
PEY 38% (17% discount)
NBPE 35% (25% discount)
PIN 34% (22% discount)
BNKR 30% (2% premium)
FCIT 28% 6% discount)
SWDA 33%

So I think there is still opportunities in the PE space.

Decided to buy some NBPE today as they have just announced another jump in NAV following the sale of largest investment.




PE also isn't performing any better over 5 or 10 years, NBPE has almost identical returns to BNKR.
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Big boy
Posted: 16 December 2020 15:46:19(UTC)
#10

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,679
Keith Cobby;141971 wrote:
Split Cap Jim;141952 wrote:
Keith Cobby;140738 wrote:
I gave up on PE as none of them can touch SMT and if they can't beat a good global fund then there is no point putting up with their lack of transparency and price volatility.


I think comparing any other trust against SMT is a harsh benchmark. In my case SMT is my largest individual holding and am still drip-feeding into it, but I'm more than happy to consider PE as a useful diversifier.

Currently we are generally seeing good NAV growth in most diversified PE trusts as the months progress.

If you consider a core typical benchmark of F&C (FCIT) or Bankers (BNKR) or a global tracker (SWDA) - over a 3 year period, the NAV TR performance vs current discount is (from trustnet)

SMT 166% (2% premium)
HGT 78% (1% premium)
3i 59% (26% premium)
APAX 47% (12% discount)
HVPE 45% (18% discount)
SLPE 39% (25% discount)
PEY 38% (17% discount)
NBPE 35% (25% discount)
PIN 34% (22% discount)
BNKR 30% (2% premium)


FCIT 28% 6% discount)
SWDA 33%

So I think there is still opportunities in the PE space.

Decided to buy some NBPE today as they have just announced another jump in NAV following the sale of largest investment.




PE also isn't performing any better over 5 or 10 years, NBPE has almost identical returns to BNKR.


When I buy or sell I want to know if a stock is cheap or dear now not 5 or 10 years ago. If you are testing the Managers performance I believe NAV data should be used rather than SP.....IMO (now) SMT are dear and NBPE are cheap when comparing underlying investments.
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1 user thanked Big boy for this post.
Johan De Silva on 09/10/2021(UTC)
SF100
Posted: 16 December 2020 16:14:42(UTC)
#13

Joined: 08/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,254

Thanks: 4159 times
Was thanked: 3070 time(s) in 1371 post(s)
Big boy;141968 wrote:
Split Cap Jim;141952 wrote:

NBPE 35% (25% discount)


I have just joined you in NBPE...thank you......maybe they have a bit of costly debt?...do you
know how the ex’s/cost of debt are apportioned???

FWIW

CGT hold (or held, ref interim report) NBPE at 0.6% of CGT
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1 user thanked SF100 for this post.
Big boy on 16/12/2020(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 16 December 2020 16:22:33(UTC)
#22

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,061
NBPE are on a large discount which means they may be cheap or expensive. PE is notoriously difficult to value hence the usually large discounts. Their holdings are not transparent to the private investor so you are completely dependent on the manager's rather than the market's valuations. I want a significant outperformance compared to global funds to compensate for the lack of transparency and significantly higher costs.
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2 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
dlp6666 on 13/01/2021(UTC), Paperwork on 09/06/2021(UTC)
Johan De Silva
Posted: 16 December 2020 18:05:11(UTC)
#23

Joined: 22/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4,414

Thanks: 5918 times
Was thanked: 10142 time(s) in 3362 post(s)
<deleted for relevance and space>
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2 users thanked Johan De Silva for this post.
Big boy on 16/12/2020(UTC), MrFlibble on 18/10/2022(UTC)
Rory Barr
Posted: 17 December 2020 15:47:17(UTC)
#24

Joined: 18/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 737
Enjoying the 7% increase in HVPE today!
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