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Increased taxation for the older generation?
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Sara G
Posted: 15 February 2021 17:08:12(UTC)
#424

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
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SimonHughes;152849 wrote:
Sara G;152842 wrote:
Tim D;152828 wrote:
One-off wealth-tax in the news again:

https://www.reuters.com/...-lawmaker-idUSKBN2AF0K6
https://www.independent....el-stride-b1802328.html (or https://archive.vn/dHcOf )


So, if I read this correctly, anyone who has retired, or plans to, and lives alone in a relatively modest house (having maintained it and paid of a mortgage), and with a pension that provides for a decent, but far from extravagant lifestyle, could be confronted with a bill for additional taxation to the tune of several thousand pounds for the following 5 years, regardless of what happens to markets or house prices.

Apart from wrecking the retirement plans of large swathes of the population, they'd be destroying any hopes they might have had of getting re-elected. In the current climate, however, I wouldn't rule it out.


I would not like it - who would? But I could afford it and when all is said and done, these extraordinary times will probably call for extraordinary measures to correct. Would it cause me to change my vote to Labour? No.


I was hoping to retire early (at around age 60), but it would be impossible under that scenario, so not liking it would be an understatement in my case. I think it's probably easier for couples than single people, and for anyone who is well above the threshold.

I'd never vote Labour, so I'd probably have no choice but to abstain. Mind you, another 5 years' of work would probably finish me off anyway, so perhaps not an issue for the fortunes of the party!
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3 users thanked Sara G for this post.
SimonHughes on 15/02/2021(UTC), W.B on 17/02/2021(UTC), Guest on 27/02/2021(UTC)
philip gosling
Posted: 15 February 2021 17:16:37(UTC)
#427

Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
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It is good to that lots of Walters are alive and kicking on this subject on this site - amazing how many people have thought up great taxes for old folk to pay. But, surely old folk paid their taxes all their lives and its young folk now who have been the cause of this massive increase in public spending.

No old folk got furloughed or like teachers and millions of other public workers sent home on full pay. No old Folk got mortgage holidays - they've paid off their mortgages - nor credit card holidays nor rent freezes and eviction prevention rules. Old folk save and pay cash. Old folk being retired didn't get any grants or loans or council tax holidays, reduced rent etc - they still pay up.

They did get killed of course in their thousands infected when they managed to get into hospital or by infected hospital patients dumped into their un prepared care homes. Do not resuscitate notices are still been foisted on old folk - in their best interests of course. Frighteners are still being put on "do not hug your granny" advertising but travellers and orthodox jews can have thousands attend funerals and regular raves attended by thousands of young with no police action but not for our ordinary old folk of course.They in their millions got hospital /consultant appointments and operations cancelled - of course for their own benefit?

Old folk stick to the rules while the young and rich and celebrities still jet around the world to the Caribbean and Dubai and Influence us all how Uk needs to do better. piers Morgan IMHO is a classic example of such hypocrisy and don't get me started on some of the ex singers breaching rules.

Mrs May found out to her cost that Old folk vote in huge numbers and they are best to know how to spend their own money rather than waste it on Reforms of the NHS again or to placate the leftie teachers who want to do anything but teach or even to use 4 star hotels for none paying illegal refugees and 2/3 star hotels for paying visitors to the UK.
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4 users thanked philip gosling for this post.
john brace on 15/02/2021(UTC), W.B on 17/02/2021(UTC), Guest on 27/02/2021(UTC), t s on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 15 February 2021 17:26:23(UTC)
#428

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
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It isn't going to happen, 'think tanks' and commentators float changes to taxes all the time. Sunak doesn't strike me as one of the great reforming chancellors and it must be safety first until the real economic damage becomes apparent. Tinkering with tax and pension allowances seems the most likely, plus changes to VAT and duties.
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dd on 15/02/2021(UTC)
MikeT
Posted: 15 February 2021 17:42:33(UTC)
#429

Joined: 12/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,522
Not a chance this will happen.

Corbyn wouldn't even agree to it so there is no way a Conservative government would willingly commit electoral suicide.

I can see pension tax relief changing though plus CGT allowances.
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anglo29
Posted: 15 February 2021 18:13:54(UTC)
#422

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Sara G;152842 wrote:
Tim D;152828 wrote:
One-off wealth-tax in the news again:

https://www.reuters.com/...-lawmaker-idUSKBN2AF0K6
https://www.independent....el-stride-b1802328.html (or https://archive.vn/dHcOf )


So, if I read this correctly, anyone who has retired, or plans to, and lives alone in a relatively modest house (having maintained it and paid of a mortgage), and with a pension that provides for a decent, but far from extravagant lifestyle, could be confronted with a bill for additional taxation to the tune of several thousand pounds for the following 5 years, regardless of what happens to markets or house prices.

Apart from wrecking the retirement plans of large swathes of the population, they'd be destroying any hopes they might have had of getting re-elected. In the current climate, however, I wouldn't rule it out.



Yes, this is precisely what I meant when I alleged that the real definition of "wealthy", so far as the government is concerned, are the middle classes. The really wealthy will have ways of getting round this......and I don't necessarily mean just very wealthy Tories. Offshore investing is no stranger to the Opposition, whether as individuals or local councils....and I did read that Labour's new HQ is leased from an offshore company.....oh dear......
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3 users thanked anglo29 for this post.
Sara G on 15/02/2021(UTC), W.B on 17/02/2021(UTC), Guest on 27/02/2021(UTC)
MrInvest
Posted: 15 February 2021 18:15:12(UTC)
#430

Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC)
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I think Sunak should increase income tax and tax on dividends for the richest rather than a one off wealth tax.
CGT in line with income tax.
Stop quantitative easing as I don't think it's trickling down into real economy.
Flat rate pension relief of around 25% for all and cap it at max £10k top up per year.
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3 users thanked MrInvest for this post.
W.B on 17/02/2021(UTC), Richard T on 17/02/2021(UTC), Easyrider on 09/03/2021(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 15 February 2021 18:23:56(UTC)
#425

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
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Sara G;152855 wrote:
SimonHughes;152849 wrote:
Sara G;152842 wrote:
Tim D;152828 wrote:
One-off wealth-tax in the news again:

https://www.reuters.com/...-lawmaker-idUSKBN2AF0K6
https://www.independent....el-stride-b1802328.html (or https://archive.vn/dHcOf )


So, if I read this correctly, anyone who has retired, or plans to, and lives alone in a relatively modest house (having maintained it and paid of a mortgage), and with a pension that provides for a decent, but far from extravagant lifestyle, could be confronted with a bill for additional taxation to the tune of several thousand pounds for the following 5 years, regardless of what happens to markets or house prices.

Apart from wrecking the retirement plans of large swathes of the population, they'd be destroying any hopes they might have had of getting re-elected. In the current climate, however, I wouldn't rule it out.


I would not like it - who would? But I could afford it and when all is said and done, these extraordinary times will probably call for extraordinary measures to correct. Would it cause me to change my vote to Labour? No.


I was hoping to retire early (at around age 60), but it would be impossible under that scenario, so not liking it would be an understatement in my case. I think it's probably easier for couples than single people, and for anyone who is well above the threshold.

I'd never vote Labour, so I'd probably have no choice but to abstain. Mind you, another 5 years' of work would probably finish me off anyway, so perhaps not an issue for the fortunes of the party!


Funny, I'd somehow gotten the impression everyone (else) on these boards was having no trouble at all cranking out compounded 20%pa portfolio returns year after year... so a one-off 5% wealth tax hit should only set those retirement plans back 3 months or so, no?

But seriously, I agree it's very unlikely to happen. Single best analysis I've read of why not is
https://firevlondon.com/...l-be-taxing-for-tories/
the initial bit on how it'd affect him and his £10-15million wealth is interesting, but scroll down to the "However, these proposals will not be enacted. They miss both the economics and the politics." heading for analysis of all the obstacles to any government actually trying to implement it.
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2 users thanked Tim D for this post.
Sara G on 15/02/2021(UTC), W.B on 17/02/2021(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 15 February 2021 18:33:31(UTC)
#426

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 4,045

Thanks: 13083 times
Was thanked: 16863 time(s) in 3514 post(s)
Tim D;152876 wrote:
Sara G;152855 wrote:
SimonHughes;152849 wrote:
Sara G;152842 wrote:
Tim D;152828 wrote:
One-off wealth-tax in the news again:

https://www.reuters.com/...-lawmaker-idUSKBN2AF0K6
https://www.independent....el-stride-b1802328.html (or https://archive.vn/dHcOf )


So, if I read this correctly, anyone who has retired, or plans to, and lives alone in a relatively modest house (having maintained it and paid of a mortgage), and with a pension that provides for a decent, but far from extravagant lifestyle, could be confronted with a bill for additional taxation to the tune of several thousand pounds for the following 5 years, regardless of what happens to markets or house prices.

Apart from wrecking the retirement plans of large swathes of the population, they'd be destroying any hopes they might have had of getting re-elected. In the current climate, however, I wouldn't rule it out.


I would not like it - who would? But I could afford it and when all is said and done, these extraordinary times will probably call for extraordinary measures to correct. Would it cause me to change my vote to Labour? No.




I was hoping to retire early (at around age 60), but it would be impossible under that scenario, so not liking it would be an understatement in my case. I think it's probably easier for couples than single people, and for anyone who is well above the threshold.

I'd never vote Labour, so I'd probably have no choice but to abstain. Mind you, another 5 years' of work would probably finish me off anyway, so perhaps not an issue for the fortunes of the party!


Funny, I'd somehow gotten the impression everyone (else) on these boards was having no trouble at all cranking out compounded 20%pa portfolio returns year after year... so a one-off 5% wealth tax hit should only set those retirement plans back 3 months or so, no?

But seriously, I agree it's very unlikely to happen. Single best analysis I've read of why not is
https://firevlondon.com/...l-be-taxing-for-tories/
the initial bit on how it'd affect him and his £10-15million wealth is interesting, but scroll down to the "However, these proposals will not be enacted. They miss both the economics and the politics." heading for analysis of all the obstacles to any government actually trying to implement it.


Edit: my reply got lost somehow! Here it is again...

Well, yes, if we can be guaranteed double-digit returns in perpetuity ;)... But at some point investment performance will be less stellar, or even negative, while inflation could well be on the rise. And any sensible retirement planning has to take into account the potential for a substantial crash, meaning that increasing the drawdown rate to pay the tax could reduce outcomes significantly for a large number of people.
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4 users thanked Sara G for this post.
dd on 15/02/2021(UTC), Tyrion Lannister on 15/02/2021(UTC), Tim D on 16/02/2021(UTC), Guest on 27/02/2021(UTC)
philip gosling
Posted: 16 February 2021 10:48:53(UTC)
#431

Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,191

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The good thing about comments by WALTs is no one will bother to read them and after teh first week in June the budget will be out and this waste of space subject can finally be put to an end.
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Tim D
Posted: 26 February 2021 09:43:03(UTC)
#433

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
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Times reporting Sunak's plan for "a new “stealth tax” on wealthy pensioners" https://www.thetimes.co....ime-allowance-jjjnx7swl

Quote:
The chancellor is expected to announce in his budget next week that the lifetime allowance, the amount people can build up in their pension pot before incurring punitive tax charges, will be frozen for the rest of this parliament at just over £1 million.


Always thought the government would find the automatic increases with CPI too tempting a target for them to continue forever. A few years of LTA freeze combined with high inflation could be pretty damaging to folks with maxed-out pots. Well at least it'll punish the DB folks (who already get off with an outrageously generous multiple) too.
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