Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Personal Assets Trust
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:04:11(UTC)

Joined: 03/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 2,029

Thanks: 1843 times
Was thanked: 2408 time(s) in 1119 post(s)
Shetland;153340 wrote:
Aminatidi;153339 wrote:
Shetland;153336 wrote:

10 years is probably more representative than 20 years

With regard to what it says on the tin, a decent global fund or even a tracker will do that and more.

I am looking for somewhere relatively safe to put money when markets are very high, I would love for CGT to be that but I have not seen any evidence that it is.


Then why don't you put it in a decent global fund or tracker?

Genuinely confused :)


Because like the people who invest in CGT, I am looking for a lower risk for times when the market is in correction territory but I don’t think that CGT is that.


Do you know what is?

I've been looking and haven't found anything that's relatively safe apart from short term bonds.
1 user thanked Tyrion Lannister for this post.
Rob B on 17/02/2021(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:21:12(UTC)

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,061

Thanks: 5958 times
Was thanked: 12438 time(s) in 3855 post(s)
I hold FCIT and Bankers, they are well spread global trusts. Performance has been satisfactory over many years. I don't care about disparaging remarks, holding them gives me a warm glow. CGT is an excellent trust, run by one of the best managers in the UK, although Peter Spiller is nearer the end of his career than the beginning. It is the type of investment you have been able to tuck away and not worry about, how many of those are there!
11 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
Aminatidi on 17/02/2021(UTC), Easyrider on 17/02/2021(UTC), Trudy Scrumptious on 17/02/2021(UTC), Rob B on 17/02/2021(UTC), Tim D on 17/02/2021(UTC), Robin on 17/02/2021(UTC), Logic Prophets on 17/02/2021(UTC), Hyndford on 17/02/2021(UTC), Guest on 18/02/2021(UTC), Jeff Liddiard on 18/02/2021(UTC), D92CB459 on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:24:32(UTC)

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865

Shetland;153340 wrote:
Aminatidi;153339 wrote:
Shetland;153336 wrote:

10 years is probably more representative than 20 years

With regard to what it says on the tin, a decent global fund or even a tracker will do that and more.

I am looking for somewhere relatively safe to put money when markets are very high, I would love for CGT to be that but I have not seen any evidence that it is.


Then why don't you put it in a decent global fund or tracker?

Genuinely confused :)


Because like the people who invest in CGT, I am looking for a lower risk for times when the market is in correction territory but I don’t think that CGT is that.


I think you could spend your life looking at probably hundreds of different multi-asset funds and bond funds and all sorts that are there or there abouts with regard to allocation and whether they're fixed allocation or volatility managed etc. and whether you need to time moving in and out and even then you could easily end up a collector of funds.

Do whatever lets you sleep at night :)
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:29:43(UTC)

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
Posts: 6,253

Come for the high fees and stay for the bad returns. What's not to like?
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:33:21(UTC)

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
Posts: 6,253

Keith Cobby;153344 wrote:
I hold FCIT and Bankers, they are well spread global trusts. Performance has been satisfactory over many years. I don't care about disparaging remarks, holding them gives me a warm glow. CGT is an excellent trust, run by one of the best managers in the UK, although Peter Spiller is nearer the end of his career than the beginning. It is the type of investment you have been able to tuck away and not worry about, how many of those are there!


I have a bit in BNKR which I see as a boring quasi tracker that does a little better than a passive global fund, but not by much.
Rob B
Posted: 17 February 2021 19:41:16(UTC)

Joined: 07/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,700

Thanks: 3431 times
Was thanked: 6745 time(s) in 1429 post(s)
Tyrion Lannister;153341 wrote:
[Do you know what is?

I've been looking and haven't found anything that's relatively safe apart from short term bonds.

I think that's probably the answer TL as we've discussed before. They're low volatility as shown at the end of Q1 last year (-1.9%). However, with that comes very low return - a below inflation return?

4 positives though. It's not a negative return, they should hold up better during inflation/risk of interest rate rises, they should drop less during another 'market moment' and they're cheap.

I hold 30% of my SIPP in Vanguard's Global Short-Term Bond Index Fund - 0.15% on-going / 0.13% transactions costs. It tracks the Bloomberg Barclays Global Aggregate Ex US MBS 1-5 year index and includes global government, government-related agencies, corporate and securitised bonds and excludes US Mortgage Backed Securities from the universe of fixed income securities. Good blend of credit rating:

AAA (42.0%)
AA (15.3%)
A (20.7%)
BBB (18.1%)
NR (3.9%)


There's a cheaper Vanguard UK Short Term Investment Grade Bond Index Fund - 0.12% on-going costs / 0.02% transactions costs. It fell about 3.5% in the same period last year. To really confuse matters (as I've just discovered - hence the edit) it tracks the Bloomberg Barclays GBP Non-Government 1-5 Year 200MM Float Adjusted index and includes investment-grade bonds, excluding government bonds, denominated in UK pounds sterling, and applies a filter to exclude the smaller, more illiquid bonds from the universe of fixed income securities. Again a good blend of credit rating:

AAA (29.9%)
AA (14.5%)
A (19.8%)
BBB (34.8%)
NR (1.0%)


With such low returns in the offing, the UK fund (non-government bonds) is half the cost of the Global fund (which includes government bonds) and should be a consideration if you're looking at ST bonds.

For me holding the ST fund is a bit like putting your tight head in goal in a 5 a side game. Not going to move much and not much is going to dribble through during an onslaught! But having such a large and immovable object tying up one end it allows warfare at the other.

PS - I've edited the above because the 'UK' fund is only 30% UK bonds. Read the small print Mr B!!!
PPS - The latter fund has the shortened acronym UKSTIG (that I just made up). What more do you want?
4 users thanked Rob B for this post.
Tim D on 17/02/2021(UTC), Robin on 17/02/2021(UTC), Bardolph on 17/02/2021(UTC), Tyrion Lannister on 17/02/2021(UTC)
Shetland
Posted: 17 February 2021 20:28:13(UTC)

Joined: 13/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,242

Bulldog Drummond;153349 wrote:
Keith Cobby;153344 wrote:
I hold FCIT and Bankers, they are well spread global trusts. Performance has been satisfactory over many years. I don't care about disparaging remarks, holding them gives me a warm glow. CGT is an excellent trust, run by one of the best managers in the UK, although Peter Spiller is nearer the end of his career than the beginning. It is the type of investment you have been able to tuck away and not worry about, how many of those are there!


I have a bit in BNKR which I see as a boring quasi tracker that does a little better than a passive global fund, but not by much.


Yes, exactly but, as with CGT, people invest in it because it did well 30 years ago.
smg8
Posted: 17 February 2021 20:55:02(UTC)

Joined: 26/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 3,365

Not much to add to this thread but it's interesting to read.

Can I ask though, unless I am mistaken Monks manager was appointed in 2015. So why are people looking at it's performance in 2008 as a comparison when it had a different manager and different mandate?

Is it not totally irrelevant? Maybe I've missed something but seems odd.
SF100
Posted: 17 February 2021 22:23:13(UTC)

Joined: 08/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,254

Thanks: 4159 times
Was thanked: 3070 time(s) in 1371 post(s)
Tyrion Lannister;153341 wrote:
Shetland;153340 wrote:

Because like the people who invest in CGT, I am looking for a lower risk for times when the market is in correction territory but I don’t think that CGT is that.


Do you know what is?

I've been looking and haven't found anything that's relatively safe apart from short term bonds.

Certainly not an IT (CGT) who's mandate is up to 80% equities
(typically 40-60% risk-on in recent times, hence it should be no surprise that it is not totally immune from market downturns Inc other economic factors such as sharp deflation)

RICA looks a better bet if it is reduced volatility during 'specific' short-term market events/corrections that you are after. Possibly BH Macro as well.
1 user thanked SF100 for this post.
Tyrion Lannister on 17/02/2021(UTC)
SF100
Posted: 17 February 2021 22:33:34(UTC)

Joined: 08/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,254

Thanks: 4159 times
Was thanked: 3070 time(s) in 1371 post(s)
smg8;153376 wrote:
Not much to add to this thread but it's interesting to read.

Can I ask though, unless I am mistaken Monks manager was appointed in 2015. So why are people looking at it's performance in 2008 as a comparison when it had a different manager and different mandate?

Is it not totally irrelevant? Maybe I've missed something but seems odd.

Not irrelevant in the context of the instigating post #163.
But I'd say comparing a 100% risk-on fund, to a fund with uppperbound multi-asset risk-on limit of 80% and more commonly much less, each with different mandates, is rather pointless.

Incidentally, what was Monks mandate in 2008?
1 user thanked SF100 for this post.
smg8 on 18/02/2021(UTC)
40 Pages«Previous page1920212223Next page»
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets