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Aminatidi
Posted: 27 February 2021 07:56:34(UTC)
#269

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Hmm that doesn't mean there's anything I need to consider if it's in an unwrapped account does it?

Capital Gains and dividend limit to one side.
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Tim D
Posted: 27 February 2021 09:51:38(UTC)
#270

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Aminatidi;155630 wrote:
Hmm that doesn't mean there's anything I need to consider if it's in an unwrapped account does it?

Capital Gains and dividend limit to one side.


You have to declare income from it (and gains, when sold) on the "foreign pages" of the self assessment. And there you have to list every offshore holding's divis separately, not just the total like in the other sections.

Think there is some exception for low levels of total foreign divis (£300? not sure) you don't need to use the foreign pages and can declare them in one box in the main section for divis. (Using that route, you can't offset withholding tax, but that's not an issue for GGY domicile). RICA not particularly yieldy so it might well come in under that threshold if it's your only offshore holding and you have less than 6 figures in it.
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Aminatidi on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Apostate
Posted: 27 February 2021 10:07:56(UTC)
#261

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Aminatidi;155486 wrote:
Well I've switched Personal Assets and Ruffer positions essentially.

So I sold £40K of PNL and purchased £40K of Ruffer.

PNL has preserved to be fair and I guess people will say it's swapping for a similar trust but it feels like Ruffer have a few more tricks up their sleeves plus with USA and SMT I have a reasonable chunk of growth.

Still debating whether to keep that remaining position and it's less about keeping it and more about what to fill it with.

Stock name % Weight Sector
1 Capital Gearing Trust Plc Ord GBP0.25 32.5% [N/A]
2 Ruffer Investment Company Red Ptg Pref Shs GBP0.0001 31.3% [N/A]
3 Personal Assets Trust PLC Ord GBP12.50 14.4% [N/A]
4 Baillie Gifford US Growth Trust plc Ord GBP0.01 11.8% [N/A]
5 Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust Plc Ord GBP0.05 10.0% [N/A]


Quite a bold move into Ruffer if I may say so. I see them very much as gamblers - however they are good at it - but you have to wait for their punts to pay off. RICA fell about 15% in 2018 - have you thought about how you'll react if something similar happens again? Remember by the time you realise it's happening it'll be too late. A plunge in BTC could see a real run on the share price.

If I was going to use Ruffer I think I'd use their OEICs - only trade (I think) once per week so no chance of being tempted to time the market.
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4 users thanked Apostate for this post.
Aminatidi on 27/02/2021(UTC), Sara G on 27/02/2021(UTC), Tim D on 27/02/2021(UTC), ALAN P on 28/02/2021(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 27 February 2021 11:17:29(UTC)
#263

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Apostate;155657 wrote:

Quite a bold move into Ruffer if I may say so. I see them very much as gamblers - however they are good at it - but you have to wait for their punts to pay off. RICA fell about 15% in 2018 - have you thought about how you'll react if something similar happens again? Remember by the time you realise it's happening it'll be too late. A plunge in BTC could see a real run on the share price.

If I was going to use Ruffer I think I'd use their OEICs - only trade (I think) once per week so no chance of being tempted to time the market.


Two ways of looking at it I guess.

A bold move or 20% more exposure to it than I had before.

I had a small amount in it in 2018 which was my first year investing and I think back then I was in the mindset of "but it says preservation and it's lost money".

I'd like to think I'm a bit more used to ebbs and flows now and right now with things appearing predictably unpredictable I'm more content with what I'd also consider a bit more of a gamble than Personal Assets Trust is.

There are enough Bitcoin threads but I don't think I see Ruffer as somewhere where Bitcoin traders hang out?

Doesn't feel likely that something that's 3% of the portfolio could cause a run for any logical reason.
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Tim D on 27/02/2021(UTC), Apostate on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Apostate
Posted: 27 February 2021 12:06:06(UTC)
#264

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Aminatidi;155684 wrote:
Apostate;155657 wrote:

Quite a bold move into Ruffer if I may say so. I see them very much as gamblers - however they are good at it - but you have to wait for their punts to pay off. RICA fell about 15% in 2018 - have you thought about how you'll react if something similar happens again? Remember by the time you realise it's happening it'll be too late. A plunge in BTC could see a real run on the share price.

If I was going to use Ruffer I think I'd use their OEICs - only trade (I think) once per week so no chance of being tempted to time the market.


Two ways of looking at it I guess.

A bold move or 20% more exposure to it than I had before.

I had a small amount in it in 2018 which was my first year investing and I think back then I was in the mindset of "but it says preservation and it's lost money".

I'd like to think I'm a bit more used to ebbs and flows now and right now with things appearing predictably unpredictable I'm more content with what I'd also consider a bit more of a gamble than Personal Assets Trust is.

There are enough Bitcoin threads but I don't think I see Ruffer as somewhere where Bitcoin traders hang out?

Doesn't feel likely that something that's 3% of the portfolio could cause a run for any logical reason.


You may be right - but the share price has soared (by Ruffer standards) in the last few months on the back of that seemingly small BTC holding. The Ruffer IT looks to be relatively "expensive" right now. Anyway good luck and good health :-)
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Aminatidi
Posted: 27 February 2021 12:47:31(UTC)
#265

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Apostate;155700 wrote:
You may be right - but the share price has soared (by Ruffer standards) in the last few months on the back of that seemingly small BTC holding. The Ruffer IT looks to be relatively "expensive" right now. Anyway good luck and good health :-)


Is it just the Bitcoin holding or is it also off the back of the vaccine approval?

I don't know the answer to that but the jump does seem to start around that point.

I tend to use the OEIC when charting because it removes premium/discount moves not sure if that's smart or not.
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Apostate on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Apostate
Posted: 27 February 2021 12:58:58(UTC)
#271

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I think if you charted in the Ruffer IT you might see why the share could be considered "expensive" right now.
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Tim D on 27/02/2021(UTC), Aminatidi on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 27 February 2021 13:18:45(UTC)
#272

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Apostate;155721 wrote:
I think if you charted in the Ruffer IT you might see why the share could be considered "expensive" right now.


Presume you mean the discount narrowing and moving to a slight premium?

I like charts but the problem is I never really understand what they're showing me beyond the basics :)
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Sara G
Posted: 27 February 2021 13:36:58(UTC)
#274

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
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RICA is on my watchlist. The BTC move got my attention, but some of their other strategies also look interesting. Having said that, I actually topped up PNL last week, so I am interested in Aminitidi reducing at this point.

An alternative to RICA might be PSH, which is on a 26% discount (HL numbers so treat with caution). Ackman has just opened a significant position that would pay off in the event of inflation leading to rising interest rates. I already hold some via AGT, but might consider a direct holding.
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2 users thanked Sara G for this post.
Bardolph on 27/02/2021(UTC), Jeff Liddiard on 27/02/2021(UTC)
Aminatidi
Posted: 27 February 2021 13:44:08(UTC)
#275

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5,865
Sara G;155733 wrote:
RICA is on my watchlist. The BTC move got my attention, but some of their other strategies also look interesting. Having said that, I actually topped up PNL last week, so I am interested in Aminitidi reducing at this point.

An alternative to RICA might be PSH, which is on a 26% discount (HL numbers so treat with caution). Ackman has just opened a significant position that would pay off in the event of inflation leading to rising interest rates. I already hold some via AGT, but might consider a direct holding.


They did a webinar this week which was very interesting as they touched on some of these.

I still hold around 15% in PNL and it has done its job I just think Ruffer may have a few more tricks to try and the "gamble" is whether they'll work or if they're being too smart for their own good.

Oddly I'm spending some time right now trying to see if there's anything that I'd be comfortable with for that 15% that's in PNL and AVI Global is one I'm looking at as it seems like a trust on a discount holding lots of other holdings on a discount so perhaps one simple way to get access to all those little things you don't want to end up with 1% or 2% of.

Interested in your thoughts on AGT and if you've ever considered MIGO as that looks the closest "competition" in style i.e. buying unloved things on sale.
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4 users thanked Aminatidi for this post.
Sara G on 27/02/2021(UTC), Robin on 27/02/2021(UTC), Jeff Liddiard on 27/02/2021(UTC), ALAN P on 28/02/2021(UTC)
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