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Do I still want my Wimbledon BTL?
Pete John
Posted: 27 April 2021 20:03:08(UTC)
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I am interested to hear other people's thoughts - especially those in a similar situation.

In 2011 I purchased my first property, a 3 bedroom Edwardian flat in Wimbledon. At the time it was in a shocking state - since then it has been modestly decorated and for quite a few years since has been rented out - I myself then have a separate property I live in with my family. Tenants have so far been okay with no major dramas - just minor routine maintenance items that one would expect. Rent wise - I have had to drop the rental price in recent years, but I have never stretched this too far and have kept myself competitive taking the approach of 100% occupancy over getting that extra £100 / month.

10 years ago buy to let was the way to wealth, or so I thought at the time. It seems mad to me now, but I had not even contemplated having a large portfolio of shares. The dream was to own several buy to lets and this would fund an early retirement / pay for those long holidays in the sun.

The question I do ask myself more and more in the present - is why do I still keep it? Should I not be selling it and putting the capital into a diversified share portfolio (which really means topping up my existing portfolio).

Reasons to keep:

- A steady 3.3% post tax yield on capital employed (this is after tax, mortgage interest payments, fees, any cost you can think of that I have paid)
- Whist I will still have made money if I sell today, it will be much less than say 2 years ago - so does it make sense to hold on for a few more years for a potential rebound in London flats?
- Do I want to keep this property for the sake of my 3 children in the future? They could then live here if they wanted? Will they want to live there? Will my own children be a pain as subsidised tenants? What value of money does this teach them?

Reasons to dispose:

- I have enough exposure to UK property through my main residence
- There is a series of regulations maybe coming down the pipeline around energy efficiency, etc. which will impact old properties like mine if it continues to be rented out - will this become a money pit?
- 3.3% yield, and at present no capital growth is not great. And I'm not sure it will improve. Whilst the S&P 500 could realistically double in 5-7 years time and comes with a 1.5% yield, I very much doubt UK FLAT prices will do the same - or could they?
- Do I want to be a landlord as I get older?

There is no decision to be made today but I will need to decide come the summer if I wish to renew again or try to sell - I'm curious to know what others in a similar situation have done / will do / or are considering doing? Or as is often the case with holding shares...the best thing is to do "nothing" and leave as is.
2 users thanked Pete John for this post.
Tim D on 27/04/2021(UTC), dd on 28/04/2021(UTC)
MBA MBA
Posted: 27 April 2021 21:06:55(UTC)
#2

Joined: 16/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,725

Seen this I started today

https://moneyforums.city...rty-s-where-its-at.aspx

Have you max your SIPP and isa allowances?

I know the wimbledon market a litttle. I thought the market was on steroids there at the moment.
Pete John
Posted: 28 April 2021 19:02:06(UTC)
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Joined: 25/08/2020(UTC)
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Indeed very interesting to see two similar topics appear on the same day.

With SIPP's and ISA's maxed out for husband and wife on a consistent annual basis the alternative use of capital would ultimately be an unsheltered share account - not to say ultimately this would then be fed into the sheltered accounts at the start of a tax year but there is certainly no immediate opportunity cost i.e. not topping up SIPPS due to the flat.
Rocky_W
Posted: 30 April 2021 08:13:36(UTC)
#4

Joined: 12/06/2018(UTC)
Posts: 135

I have 1 London BTL (first home which I didn't sell when I moved out to a family home)

I view it as a wealth store to help diversity my overall wealth.

I plan to keep for the long term.

AJW
Posted: 30 April 2021 08:44:02(UTC)
#5

Joined: 15/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 783

I don't want to give you advice because it sounds like you know more than I do regarding BTL.

I am wondering what % of your wealth this property makes up? It sounds like you don't have much in the way of stock market investments, but if you happen to have a £500k stocks & shares ISA or something then a BTL could be a good diversifier.

I'd be hesitant to have 100% of my wealth in a BTL, but then again some people have got rich investing in property.
Jim S
Posted: 01 May 2021 16:24:37(UTC)
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I agree with the other posters that you seem to know what you're doing and that the decision may depend partly on whether you can invest sufficiently using your ISA/JISA and SIPP allowances while also having your BTL.

One approach might be to make 2 plans, one to keep and one to sell.
If you sell, what would you have left after CGT and costs, and how would you invest the proceeds?
If you don't sell, what would your plan be?
You've been thinking about your strategy already, if you write down the two options in detail that might help you decide

My wife and I have 3 BTLs, my approach is to go for 5 year fixes and always try to maximise additional borrowing each time a remortgage comes up (borrowing up to 75% LTV max, as that gets decent rates). Whenever I can get additional borrowing, I channel that into ISAs and maxing my pension contributions.
That has worked OK so far, at least it does in a bull market :-)

For higher rate taxpayers, nowadays you can end up paying lots of tax on your BTL, even if you make a net annual loss. One early mistake I made was having ownership in either my name or jointly, so I am thinking about changing this so that my wife (who doesn't work) gets notionally more BTL income. This will be more tax efficient, but there's stamp duty costs (I think 3%) involved in transferring part of ownership, even to spouse.

1 user thanked Jim S for this post.
xiang zou on 04/05/2021(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 01 May 2021 17:24:32(UTC)
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Like others, I wouldn't presume to advise but a couple of thoughts -

"at present no capital growth is not great. And I'm not sure it will improve." Eh? Since the Stamp Duty 'holiday', every market report I have read has spoken of tremendous growth. Today's Telegraph Money Section features the return of gazumping. Of course, one can't foresee the future but over the long term London property has defied predictions of "surely it can't go any higher". In the 1980's it seemed unimaginable that houses in our West London road could ever reach the magic £100k. That would start with a '3' now. (Million).

One factor, therefore, to bear in mind is whether any of your family intend to stay in London. If so, keeping a London property keeps you in step with values. I know so many people who left London and then found that neither they nor their family could afford to get back if they wanted to.

The downside of property is its illiquidity, particularly compared to equities/bonds etc which can be traded at the click of a mouse. However, if it was me, and if I had the resources to build a share portfolio without selling the property (particularly if within ISA/SIPP shelters), then that's what I would do (NAI). It remains a significant capital asset which could be realised at any time when your family's needs become clearer and, if Armageddon strikes and stockmarkets collapse, at least you will still have a roof over your heads (which is why I personally like to invest in physical assets that have practical use - you can't eat shares or gold!).
2 users thanked jeffian for this post.
xiang zou on 04/05/2021(UTC), Fig Lee on 04/05/2021(UTC)
1962
Posted: 09 May 2021 13:45:27(UTC)
#8

Joined: 24/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 31

If I held BTL my concerns would be as follows:
1) What taxes would be payable if I transferred the BTL to my children or left it to them in my will?
2) Will the UK government introduce rent controls at some point in order to reduce the amount it is paying to landlords?
3) Given that the UK faces secular stagnation how can rents grow in the future?

bédé
Posted: 09 May 2021 14:25:28(UTC)
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Pete John;167042 wrote:
- Do I want to be a landlord as I get older?
Think of the time, effort and worry you might have to devote. Think liquidity. Think of your declining enthusiasm. Think what you could achieve with a reasonably adventurous portfoliuo.

If you are already asking questions ...
1 user thanked bédé for this post.
Big boy on 09/05/2021(UTC)
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