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How big is your mortgage?
MBA MBA
Posted: 04 May 2024 09:56:56(UTC)
#1

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I’ve had a deliberate strategy of running a very large mortgage (though probably only 40-50% of the value of the house, which of course could fall).

I’m now questioning whether after my ultra low rate (1.2%) expires in 2.5 years I continue to run it or pay it down by removing the funds held in my ISA and cash outside of ISA (which means no more cash left to put in ISA).

I’m also asking whether even if jn 2.5 years, when my 1.2% rate expires, and I face even a new rate of 4% whether keeping money in ISA and continuing to put more money in ISAs and SIPPs is too valuable it even with a mortgage of 4%.

I always ensure that even with money in ISA a decent chunk is liquid (MMF, ultra short bonds and a massive amount in 60/40 funds).

I guess therefore the question is at what rate of interest (and future expected mortgage rate) would I definitely use the cash in my ISA to pay down the mortgage.

Im even more flummoxed because im convinced a future govt (even if it’s Tory) will reduce the generosity of ISAs and SIPPs (for those of us on modest income/wealth who have the audacity to save rather than spend).

For those of you with similar big mortgage strategies what’s your thinking - esp now we are def in 3-6% base rate environment.
1 user thanked MBA MBA for this post.
Jay P on 04/05/2024(UTC)
Chris1986
Posted: 04 May 2024 10:04:59(UTC)
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I have a large (but not large relative to price of house) interest only mortgage.
Most likely when my ultra low rate runs out in Feb 26 I will keep trying to max my pension and ISA and take out another IO mortgage.
Even at 4% i think it still makes sense to get the tax relief on the pension contributions, plus my company top up any pension sacrifice by the NI they save too, around 13% i think. Adds up.
700k is already tied up in the house, i dont really want more by paying off the principal
1 user thanked Chris1986 for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC)
jonathan rowe
Posted: 04 May 2024 10:39:07(UTC)
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Personally, I'm 54 and am mindful of my age with regards to remortgage.

If one decided to pay down, and then a few years later change your mind that leverage is better and wish to re-mortgage house - then you may have problems with age limits/underwriting risk/higher rate (although it is getting better).

Years ago I had an offset mortgage which was fantastic, I could offset spare cash which would then effectively return the interest saved PLUS the tax I paid in order to earn it. These days the offset rates are very poor and not worth it.
1 user thanked jonathan rowe for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC)
John Bleke
Posted: 04 May 2024 11:46:48(UTC)
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My mortgage is about 80k now at 55. It's at 1.3% for another 2.5 years. Household income 150k but drive both incomes down to £50k via pension contributions. I'm hopeful the cycle would have turned by Sept 26 and interest rates will be really low again. I suspect we'll pay it down then if not just to get it out of the way unless we are struggling to exhaust our higher rate bands in which case I'd remortgage just to up our pension contributions.
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MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 04 May 2024 12:36:43(UTC)
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Longer term I'd be surprised to see mortgage rates sitting beneath BOE base rate. There's some considerable way to go yet in unwinding the QE era. The running down of the BOE balance sheet is progressively going to drain liquidity from the money markets. While there's still hundreds of thousands of existing mortgage holders who've yet to refinance from their current low rates. Still a million mortgage holders to do so in 2024 alone.

For interest rates to fall significantly the economy would have to be stuttering. That wouldn't be good for equities either. Think back to the pre 2007 era that was normality. Still many living in the free money era I'd suggest. Not least in the media.
4 users thanked Thrugelmir for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC), Tim D on 04/05/2024(UTC), Shaun Fletcher on 06/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 04 May 2024 12:47:50(UTC)
#6

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Outstanding Mortgage - £1.2m against £2.5m property at last valuation
£500k taken out in 2020 to put in markets (took out £1m in 2009 - then repaid some and took out more in 2014)
Have ability to repay mortgage from investment portfolio without touching UK BTL or UK pensions.
Want to max out ISA's and pensions for children - (Not particularly happy with the level of taxes paid by myself let alone whole family and still struggle to get my bins collected, an appointment to see a GP or the streets repaired)
4 users thanked Newbie for this post.
John Bleke on 04/05/2024(UTC), MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC), Mat1 on 06/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
MBA MBA
Posted: 04 May 2024 14:57:36(UTC)
#7

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Newbie;304730 wrote:
Outstanding Mortgage - £1.2m against £2.5m property at last valuation
£500k taken out in 2020 to put in markets (took out £1m in 2009 - then repaid some and took out more in 2014)
Have ability to repay mortgage from investment portfolio without touching UK BTL or UK pensions.
Want to max out ISA's and pensions for children - (Not particularly happy with the level of taxes paid by myself let alone whole family and still struggle to get my bins collected, an appointment to see a GP or the streets repaired)


What the heck do you and partner do for a living? Banking masters of the universe? You sound totally on it.

Don’t you fear that the markets may sink and you can’t pay down your mortgage?

Do you hold much cash or cash like securities?

BTL is becoming a hard game and once Lab get in they’ll go for BTL further:
2 users thanked MBA MBA for this post.
Newbie on 04/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 04 May 2024 16:43:32(UTC)
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Paid off my mortgage just before Covid for reasons of simplifying a Visa application...

No regrets, avoided some losses in 2020 by having sold investments to do it....
2 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
SteveCM
Posted: 04 May 2024 17:01:40(UTC)
#11

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No mortgage for the last year or so (late 40s) - perhaps not the best mathmatically from an optimisation perspective but I sleep well at night and have reduced outgoings significantly in preparation to retirement in early 50s. Continue to top up ISA + SIPP and building up cash/MMF buffer to be a couple of years expenses ready for the big day.

No intention to go back to having debt.
5 users thanked SteveCM for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC), Jay P on 04/05/2024(UTC), DHardisty on 06/05/2024(UTC), D T on 09/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 04 May 2024 17:33:57(UTC)
#8

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MBA MBA;304738 wrote:
Newbie;304730 wrote:
Outstanding Mortgage - £1.2m against £2.5m property at last valuation
£500k taken out in 2020 to put in markets (took out £1m in 2009 - then repaid some and took out more in 2014)
Have ability to repay mortgage from investment portfolio without touching UK BTL or UK pensions.
Want to max out ISA's and pensions for children - (Not particularly happy with the level of taxes paid by myself let alone whole family and still struggle to get my bins collected, an appointment to see a GP or the streets repaired)


What the heck do you and partner do for a living? Banking masters of the universe? You sound totally on it.

Don’t you fear that the markets may sink and you can’t pay down your mortgage?

Do you hold much cash or cash like securities?

BTL is becoming a hard game and once Lab get in they’ll go for BTL further:

Definitely not masters of the universe though my annual tax bill is approx six figures - (will breach this year and this after putting the max in pensions - hence why made comment about maxing out for children)

Mortgage not a major worry - as pointed out portfolio will more than cover it.

Have options maturing on add to this. Then there is the BTL. On top is the the EBT and other pensions.

If markets sink then will obviously hurt but more worrying is loss of income and annual bonuses which will impede lifestyle. Just need to ensure that if markets sink then have enough cash or assets on call so as not to call upon portfolio. The exception is the share options which have to be realised - but can use losses to offset future gains but only if still in role.

Try and keep approx £250k in cash/like holdings (though down to £200k now as topped up children's pensions and ISA's) - should cover a couple of years expenses. Can also access pensions including 25% TFC.

BTL is not an investment strategy for me but an investment strategy for my future generations as are some of the pensions. Labour coming after them will hurt people who rely on income or are heavily geared through necessity - for ourselves it is by choice and bought for long term growth. The BTL's (and main residence to an extent) are there to help get access to finances at competitive rates whilst still earning and making use of available tax breaks. (FWIW We have paid off our mortgage in full 4 times already and then drawn monies out again for opportunities - in the last 20 years)

Our BTL portfolio are generally 3 bed semi-detached houses so can easily move into one if we hit s**ts creek.

The three biggest worries for me are
- Loss of income though unlikely to put me in the streets just yet unless
- family separation ie divorce and any settlement - be it myself or family members
- HMRC - As above my annual tax bill has started breaching six figures.

Wife has her own P/T Income and finances (though still a HRT payer) and puts all she earns into Gold and property and for children. As for normal expenditure (including replacing the car and its associated costs), she tends to misplace her debit or credit cards for her own accounts and raids the joint account. It is one of the reasons why I have shares in the likes of Amazon, M&S. If John Lewis had shares I would buy them also.

For home repairs and upkeep that apparently is a gentleman's duty even if the gentleman has no say as to what is being done, all on the basis that it is a lady that makes it a home for a gentleman to live in.
5 users thanked Newbie for this post.
MBA MBA on 04/05/2024(UTC), Tim D on 04/05/2024(UTC), Novice Investor on 04/05/2024(UTC), Jay P on 04/05/2024(UTC), gillyann on 20/05/2024(UTC)
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