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Beat Reeves: Reduce IHT with THE UNDIVIDED SHARE
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 04 November 2024 23:53:19(UTC)
#1

Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
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With everyone now casting around for ways to reduce IHT, after the tax grab on Pensions, remember the family home could now become the taxpayer's best counter-weapon...

Don't forget the perfectly legal UNDIVIDED SHARE wheeze, otherwise known as FA 1986, section 102B(4)...

By using it, one could stay in your home, but reduce its value for IHT purposes by more than

(n)/(n+1) % of its actual value, where n is the number of people, e.g. children, you share it with...

https://taxbar.com/wp-co...Live_There_Patric-1.pdf
https://genusplan.co.uk/...-30-Main-residences.pdf

NB: DON'T do this as a DIY. Obtain specialist advice. IANAL.

Plain language example I found:-

Quote:
The legislation states that if an individual makes a gift of an undivided (meaning not the whole thing!)
share of his main residence to another person and continues to reside at the property, the gifted share will not be caught by the GROB rules so long as the criteria listed below are adhered to.
1. the donor must gift a share but not the whole of their main residence
2. the recipient must be an ‘occupier’ of the property
3. the donor must continue paying at least their own share of the outgoings
4. these criteria must be adhered to until death (not just 7 years)
5. the gift must be absolute, i.e. not in trust

Gift of an undivided share
It is important to highlight that for the concession to the GROB rules to apply, the client must only gift a share of the property to a chosen beneficiary absolutely and retain some benefit.
This means that technically, the donor could retain just 1% of the property after making the gift but it is worth noting that HMRC is likely to challenge any person making a gift of more than 50% of their property as they deem the disposal of more than 50% as aggressive tax planning.
Nevertheless, this is all within the legislation.

Occupation
Noting the recipient must ‘occupy’ the property to avoid the GROB, this is an easy test where the
occupier lives there full time. It should also be noted that it is possible in the eyes of the legislation to occupy more than one property at the same time.
The test as to whether somebody is occupying is clearly fundamental and where the occupier usually lives in another property, then the test as to the occupation is always going to be an evidential one.
The test is likely to be satisfied where, for instance, there is a gift of a share of the main residence to a child who visits the property on a regular basis, is able to come and go as they please, have their own key and leaves their possessions at the property.
There does of course need to be more than mere storage of items at the property and so an occupier having their own bedroom and being able to come and go as they please would certainly make the test easier to satisfy
https://www.countrywise....n_to_the_GROB_rules.pdf


Another example https://uk.jha.com/insig...n-of-benefit-provisions [Example 6]

More insights https://www.charlesrusse...ed-ownership-exemption/

It gets better. I understand HMRC accepts that a half-share of something is worth less than half the value of the whole. For a Principal Private Residence share, I understand the Revenue accept a 15% discount on the value of a share.

e.g. £1m house. Parent(s) give a half-share to a child. The share retained by the parents is discounted in value by 15% to £425k.

So £575k has in fact been removed from the estate for IHT purposes, provided:
a) the conditions listed above are adhered to, and
b) the donor survives 7 years, and
c) the arrangement continues until the donor's death

IHTM14332 states:
Quote:
Note to the joint property examples
The joint property examples are on the basis that the joint owners take the property in equal shares. Refer any case in which the transferor takes less than an equal share to Technical.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-...ce-tax-manual/ihtm14332

implying, the more sharers (children) you have, the more of the value of the property will fall out of the scope of IHT. [Obviously there may be practical limitations; e.g. family proximity, amity]

Illustrative Numbers (AIUI, DYOR)

£1m house (shares, including the donor), ignoring NRB
Shares........IHT saving
2.................£230k
3.................£286k
4.................£315k
5.................£332k


edit: fixed the links
10 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Tim D on 05/11/2024(UTC), Newbie on 05/11/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 05/11/2024(UTC), Rookie Investor on 08/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 08/11/2024(UTC), Rob B on 08/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 08/11/2024(UTC), Jonathan7 on 12/11/2024(UTC), Lindsay on 20/11/2024(UTC), Jeff Liddiard on 24/11/2024(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 05 November 2024 00:07:51(UTC)
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Neminem Laedit;324583 wrote:
For a Principal Private Residence share, I understand the Revenue accept a 15% discount on the value of a share.


15% is an interesting number; was once discussing valuation of shares in an illiquid privately held family business and the tax specialist mentioned that HMRC would consider a 15% discount to the NAV reasonable, provided the NAV was sensibly valued (It was: a RICS valuation of property - which was the bulk of the company assets - is considered unquestionable by HMRC).
1 user thanked Tim D for this post.
Neminem Laedit on 05/11/2024(UTC)
Rookie Investor
Posted: 08 November 2024 19:36:55(UTC)
#4

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,087

Can this really be done in practice? If so, we were considering gifting a share of my parents house and this makes it even better.

I own my own PR, but the gift my parents would make to me would likely be 25% on £1m value. No CGT or Stamp duty to pay.

I didn't know I can still have the share treated as PR if I own and live in one already. There is a spare bedroom in my parents property so I suppose that will be mine now :)

£750k remaining share for my parents discounted by 15% is £637.5k, pretty handy IHT saving.
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 08 November 2024 20:42:52(UTC)
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Rookie Investor;325067 wrote:
Can this really be done in practice? If so, we were considering gifting a share of my parents house and this makes it even better.

I own my own PR, but the gift my parents would make to me would likely be 25% on £1m value. No CGT or Stamp duty to pay.

I didn't know I can still have the share treated as PR if I own and live in one already. There is a spare bedroom in my parents property so I suppose that will be mine now :)

£750k remaining share for my parents discounted by 15% is £637.5k, pretty handy IHT saving.


It's been done in practice at least since 1986, and I've posted several examples from several sources. I would recommend obtaining specialist advice, however, to make any such arrangement watertight.

Initially, the share would be treated as a second home, if you already have a PPR.

It would be subject to the normal rules for PPR relief.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home/nominating-a-home
1 user thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Rookie Investor on 08/11/2024(UTC)
Rookie Investor
Posted: 08 November 2024 20:54:09(UTC)
#6

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,087

Neminem Laedit;325072 wrote:
Rookie Investor;325067 wrote:
Can this really be done in practice? If so, we were considering gifting a share of my parents house and this makes it even better.

I own my own PR, but the gift my parents would make to me would likely be 25% on £1m value. No CGT or Stamp duty to pay.

I didn't know I can still have the share treated as PR if I own and live in one already. There is a spare bedroom in my parents property so I suppose that will be mine now :)

£750k remaining share for my parents discounted by 15% is £637.5k, pretty handy IHT saving.


It's been done in practice at least since 1986, and I've posted several examples from several sources. I would recommend obtaining specialist advice, however, to make any such arrangement watertight.

Initially, the share would be treated as a second home, if you already have a PPR.

It would be subject to the normal rules for PPR relief.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home/nominating-a-home


Thanks will certainly be getting specialist legal advice on this (amongst other things).

I can see that 10-15% discount can be applied on the share of the deceased, but can't see anywhere online whether the share needs to be equal shares, or any shares. So in your example in the OP, 2 sharers (inc donor) has 50-50 share int he property, 3 has 33.3% each, 4 has 25% each. But what if there are 2 owners, donor with 75% and 25% held by a son? Would the full 10-15% discount still apply? I can't see why not as any share, irrespective of size, would be seen as undesirable by the market.
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 23 November 2024 18:51:01(UTC)
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Rookie Investor;325073 wrote:
Neminem Laedit;325072 wrote:
Rookie Investor;325067 wrote:
Can this really be done in practice? If so, we were considering gifting a share of my parents house and this makes it even better.

I own my own PR, but the gift my parents would make to me would likely be 25% on £1m value. No CGT or Stamp duty to pay.

I didn't know I can still have the share treated as PR if I own and live in one already. There is a spare bedroom in my parents property so I suppose that will be mine now :)

£750k remaining share for my parents discounted by 15% is £637.5k, pretty handy IHT saving.


It's been done in practice at least since 1986, and I've posted several examples from several sources. I would recommend obtaining specialist advice, however, to make any such arrangement watertight.

Initially, the share would be treated as a second home, if you already have a PPR.

It would be subject to the normal rules for PPR relief.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home/nominating-a-home


Thanks will certainly be getting specialist legal advice on this (amongst other things).

I can see that 10-15% discount can be applied on the share of the deceased, but can't see anywhere online whether the share needs to be equal shares, or any shares. So in your example in the OP, 2 sharers (inc donor) has 50-50 share int he property, 3 has 33.3% each, 4 has 25% each. But what if there are 2 owners, donor with 75% and 25% held by a son? Would the full 10-15% discount still apply? I can't see why not as any share, irrespective of size, would be seen as undesirable by the market.


As I quoted from IHTM14332, HMRC appear only to be interested where the transferor/donor retains less than an equal share.
1 user thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Jay P on 23/11/2024(UTC)
Neminem Laedit
Posted: 23 November 2024 19:11:28(UTC)
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Joined: 17/09/2018(UTC)
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An alternative is "gift and leaseback".

You could give the whole property away and continue to live in it. After seven years it falls out of your estate for IHT purposes...

But you must pay full market rent (this actually could help you further reduce your IHT bill).

https://www.estplan.co.u...d-leaseback-of-property

Again, professional advice is strongly advised.
2 users thanked Neminem Laedit for this post.
Guest on 23/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 23/11/2024(UTC)
Alex Peard
Posted: 23 November 2024 21:20:11(UTC)
#9

Joined: 05/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 53

The downside is that CGT will be payable on eventual property sale. A friend did this over 25 years ago and has recently died. Because of changes in legislation since then, primarily the ability to transfer his late wife’s IHT allowance and main property residence relief no IHT would have been payable on his estate but his children have paid a lot of income tax over the years and now face CGT.

Will depend on value of potential estate and may be worth considering for some.


Neminem Laedit;326644 wrote:
An alternative is "gift and leaseback".

You could give the whole property away and continue to live in it. After seven years it falls out of your estate for IHT purposes...

But you must pay full market rent (this actually could help you further reduce your IHT bill).

https://www.estplan.co.u...d-leaseback-of-property

Again, professional advice is strongly advised.

jeffian
Posted: 23 November 2024 23:21:37(UTC)
#10

Joined: 09/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 954

Or.....
Take out a lifetime mortgage (not Equity Release which involves compounding interest), give the proceeds away, live 7 years and the estate is reduced by the amount of the mortgage.
Rookie Investor
Posted: 23 November 2024 23:40:13(UTC)
#11

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,087

jeffian;326654 wrote:
Or.....
Take out a lifetime mortgage (not Equity Release which involves compounding interest), give the proceeds away, live 7 years and the estate is reduced by the amount of the mortgage.


But you are paying 6-7% interest rate at least on the amount gifted. Gift earns say 4% so that is a difference of 3%. Die in 7 years and that is 7 * 3 = 21% total interest on the value of the gift. Half the IHT tax if you did not bother doing anything. Longer you have the loan (are alive) the difference in the IHT tax and interest gets smaller.
1 user thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
Sheerman on 24/11/2024(UTC)
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