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4.375% Treasury Gilt 2030 New Issue
Busy doing nothing
Posted: 04 January 2025 19:20:08(UTC)
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MBA MBA;330107 wrote:
Busy doing nothing;330102 wrote:
No interest or gains need to be reported if held in ISA or SIPP.
That is how i would imagine most people hold them.


the great attraction of gilts is enabling 40/45% income tax payers to hold outside of ISAs and SIPPs. Thats who it really makes sense for AFTER theyve exhausted ISA and SIPP allowance

Yes quite possibly, however this latest offering is a conventional gilt as opposed to an index-linked gilt, so i am presuming it would be more beneficial to be held within a tax free wrapper for most people in general.
1 user thanked Busy doing nothing for this post.
MBA MBA on 05/01/2025(UTC)
ALAN P
Posted: 04 January 2025 19:21:10(UTC)
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Busy doing nothing;330057 wrote:
You need to go to the IPO's and new offers page on your investment platforms website and click on the link. Don't know if all platforms offer this, ii do.


Wonderful thanks for your assistance (I'm on ii so found it quite easily)

Much appreciated
1 user thanked ALAN P for this post.
Busy doing nothing on 04/01/2025(UTC)
Andrew59
Posted: 04 January 2025 23:09:58(UTC)
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The advantage for me in holding gilts is that you know what you'll get, so if you think the market will tank this gives you some level of protection especially if you hold it to the end of the term. They are also easier to understand than bond funds promoted by the investment houses where the bonds in the fund are continually churned.
At the moment though credit spreads between the various bond grades are tight by historic standards, so I feel that unless you really know what you're doing in the bond world - and most of us don't - minimal risk investments are quite attractive.
But I prefer MMF's giving nearer 5% in my tax free accounts. My view is even if interest rates drop 1% this year MMF's could still be giving nearly 4% and I have almost instant access to the money.as dry powder.

Happy to be corrected!
5 users thanked Andrew59 for this post.
MBA MBA on 05/01/2025(UTC), ALAN P on 05/01/2025(UTC), Guest on 07/01/2025(UTC), Wave Action on 07/01/2025(UTC), Sara G on 08/01/2025(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 07 January 2025 18:01:25(UTC)
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Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

Bought some as a DIY offset for my 5 year fix re mortgage.
Don't know what the price is yet but should produce a small profit on the equivalent mortgage amount plus options depending on what the future holds.
JayW
Posted: 08 January 2025 10:25:04(UTC)
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2 users thanked JayW for this post.
NoMoreKickingCans on 08/01/2025(UTC), Busy doing nothing on 08/01/2025(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 08 January 2025 11:39:51(UTC)
#16

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

Already looks disappointing, it seems the bond vigilantes are making a full on attack.

The 5 year yield is now at 4.57% so looking at an immediate loss in capital value of 0.4%. I now feel foolish for thinking buying at a gov auction was a decent idea.

20 year yield is now at 5.34% which has never been seen this century.

Does anyone know how this bond vigilante stuff should play out ? It begins to feel like a doom loop. The higher they push up gilt rates the more unaffordable the UK debt becomes and the more taxes must be raised. But the more taxes are raised the more the economy will crash and tax revenues will fall. Therefore gilt rates will rise further etc etc. End result the destruction of the UK and the worst recession we have ever seen ?

How do you stop it ?
1/ The resignation of Rachel from customer accounts and two-tier Kier ? A new election followed by massive cuts in public expenditure which will itself produce a huge recession ?
2/ Large UK interest rates cuts with a plunging pound creating massive inflation to try to save the economy ?

Answers on a postcard please.
3 users thanked NoMoreKickingCans for this post.
Sara G on 08/01/2025(UTC), Guest on 08/01/2025(UTC), stephen_s on 08/01/2025(UTC)
Bob Brook
Posted: 08 January 2025 11:51:34(UTC)
#18

Joined: 12/04/2023(UTC)
Posts: 151

Looks liek Trump is following through with the worst case tariff scenario so it could get a lot worse yet. However I doubt people who purchased this bond are worried, they knew exactly what they were getting.
Sara G
Posted: 08 January 2025 11:53:47(UTC)
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NMKC, I agree, there is a risk of further capital falls, although if you are holding to maturity that shouldn't be an issue (except psychologically perhaps). UK yields are indeed the highest since 1998 but they can always go higher.

I don't think RR will resign over it. They will find a way to blame the previous government or some global macro drivers that have absolutely nothing to do with the recent budget, and nothing at all like what happened after the Truss budget.

The bond vigilantes will be sated by spending cuts or further tax rises. The government has insisted that there won't be another budget before next Autumn, so it remains to be seen whether sufficient spending adjustments can be made in the interim period, or if things get so bad that they are forced to raise taxes sooner. Either way, more tax rises are likely, and if inflation is on the up (as is feared) then those rising yields will get eaten away.

Perhaps one question is what all of this does to sterling? The pound has fallen slightly of late, and this may continue, so perhaps US treasuries are a better option? Yields are also rising in the US in advance of the new Trump administration, but a lot may already be in the price, and if the $ remains strong relative to sterling, there is some protection there.

Alternatively one might conclude that lending to governments isn't quite as risk free as it seems (depending on duration and how bonds are held).
2 users thanked Sara G for this post.
Guest on 08/01/2025(UTC), stephen_s on 08/01/2025(UTC)
AlanP2
Posted: 08 January 2025 11:53:54(UTC)
#21

Joined: 20/01/2021(UTC)
Posts: 71

From my limited reading US and other major economies government bond yields have also risen as the bond vigilantes start to play so it isn't a UK specific issue.

As for having made a capital loss surely that is only crystalised if you sell? I would have thought most people buying a 2030 bond would be planning on holding until maturity and getting back exactly what they expected.

I could be totally wrong about either or both of these points as I don't follow macro / monetary policies that closely and don't understand bonds that much so have never purchased one directly.
Rookie Investor
Posted: 08 January 2025 12:02:17(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;330399 wrote:
Already looks disappointing, it seems the bond vigilantes are making a full on attack.

The 5 year yield is now at 4.57% so looking at an immediate loss in capital value of 0.4%. I now feel foolish for thinking buying at a gov auction was a decent idea.

20 year yield is now at 5.34% which has never been seen this century.

Does anyone know how this bond vigilante stuff should play out ? It begins to feel like a doom loop. The higher they push up gilt rates the more unaffordable the UK debt becomes and the more taxes must be raised. But the more taxes are raised the more the economy will crash and tax revenues will fall. Therefore gilt rates will rise further etc etc. End result the destruction of the UK and the worst recession we have ever seen ?

How do you stop it ?
1/ The resignation of Rachel from customer accounts and two-tier Kier ? A new election followed by massive cuts in public expenditure which will itself produce a huge recession ?
2/ Large UK interest rates cuts with a plunging pound creating massive inflation to try to save the economy ?

Answers on a postcard please.


Nominal GDP growth last year was around 4%. what is the weighted average interest on all debt? I suspect less than that or at most around 4%.

So could still be entirely serviceable. But UK have been able to add debt without much concern (with exception of late 2022). Difficult to say at what point the market starts to price in UK being insolvent, but does not appear so now and possibly we could just grow (and inflate) our way out of it. Inflation seems to be the most probable way to manage our debts.
1 user thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
Jay P on 08/01/2025(UTC)
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