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Brookfield Corp (BN on NYSE and BN.TO - Toronto)
Raj K
Posted: 13 February 2025 15:28:46(UTC)
#10

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,818

Big boy;334231 wrote:


Can someone let me know what the top 10 FTSE 100 shares were 20 years ago. thank you..


Yuo can use Chat GPT to look it up. Simple solution!
Newbie
Posted: 13 February 2025 15:41:18(UTC)
#11

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,816

Thanks: 6009 times
Was thanked: 7025 time(s) in 2602 post(s)
Big boy;334231 wrote:


Can someone let me know what the top 10 FTSE 100 shares were 20 years ago. thank you..

Not sure - but what does that have to do with the price of milk !
I do not invest in the top companies.
I do not invest in the best companies
I do not invest in the cheap companies
I do not invest in expensive companies
I invest in companies which "I" believe will do well for me going forward
I do invest in SMT and have done for 30 years and yes I have been buying more when shares halved
I also did the same with 3i.
I am no longer buying into 3i but still topping up on SMT though at lower levels and slower pace.
I do not try and trade these.
HVPE no longer fitted my needs to so I exited that - but I may re-enter.
Simple discounts and premiums do not dictate my decisions.
LTI is on a discount and has also been in my portfolio since inception - but am I buying now - no
Will I buy again - maybe
But I do not need to trade it.

BTW - Hims & Hers is up 20% today (100% in a month, 450% in a year)
BigBear is flat today, 36% in a week.
AppLovin is up 30% today ($500 but I got kicked out at $475).
These are trading stocks where you look closely around them.

Now can you please define "cheap" !
2 users thanked Newbie for this post.
Jay P on 13/02/2025(UTC), bearcub on 13/02/2025(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 13 February 2025 16:39:19(UTC)
#12

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

Newbie;334240 wrote:
Big boy;334231 wrote:


Can someone let me know what the top 10 FTSE 100 shares were 20 years ago. thank you..

Not sure - but what does that have to do with the price of milk !
I do not invest in the top companies.
I do not invest in the best companies
I do not invest in the cheap companies
I do not invest in expensive companies
I invest in companies which "I" believe will do well for me going forward
I do invest in SMT and have done for 30 years and yes I have been buying more when shares halved
I also did the same with 3i.
I am no longer buying into 3i but still topping up on SMT though at lower levels and slower pace.
I do not try and trade these.
HVPE no longer fitted my needs to so I exited that - but I may re-enter.
Simple discounts and premiums do not dictate my decisions.
LTI is on a discount and has also been in my portfolio since inception - but am I buying now - no
Will I buy again - maybe
But I do not need to trade it.

BTW - Hims & Hers is up 20% today (100% in a month, 450% in a year)
BigBear is flat today, 36% in a week.
AppLovin is up 30% today ($500 but I got kicked out at $475).
These are trading stocks where you look closely around them.

Now can you please define "cheap" !


As many are investing for 20 years in the”best” my question was how have they done over last 20 years. ie
top 10 FTSE100 …

Thank you for letting me know you still feel SMT is good value yet no longer 3I. Good clear answers ..thank you.

For the record I only monitor the IT/IC sector as clear over or undervalued. IMO it’s guessing when investing in Funds, passive, trackers and direct equities.

If FMs find it difficult to choose equities what hope have we.

For record each of my term transactions is a trade. We all trade at some time.

For record IMO PSH are cheap on 35% discount.
Big boy
Posted: 13 February 2025 17:23:36(UTC)
#14

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676


Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.
Raj K
Posted: 13 February 2025 17:44:10(UTC)
#16

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,818

Big boy;334263 wrote:

Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.


So is SMT undervalued or overvalued based on today's stats and what are those stats?

Just for accuracy and based on Feb 11th's reported NAV on the PSH website (£61.84) and today's closing price of £44.60, it's is on a 28% discount. Does that change your view of the value on offer?
ben ski
Posted: 13 February 2025 19:33:18(UTC)
#18

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,354

Raj K;334267 wrote:
Big boy;334263 wrote:

Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.


So is SMT undervalued or overvalued based on today's stats and what are those stats?


It's 8% undervalued, based on the market's assessment of value.

Personally, I think IT costs should be factored in, and while I'd normally multiply costs by 15 years, perhaps it's fairer to use 20 for SMT. So I'd take 5-8% off for the cost impact, and say SMT's possibly only available at market value right now.

Big boy
Posted: 14 February 2025 09:48:48(UTC)
#19

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

ben ski;334277 wrote:
Raj K;334267 wrote:
Big boy;334263 wrote:

Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.


So is SMT undervalued or overvalued based on today's stats and what are those stats?


It's 8% undervalued, based on the market's assessment of value.

Personally, I think IT costs should be factored in, and while I'd normally multiply costs by 15 years, perhaps it's fairer to use 20 for SMT. So I'd take 5-8% off for the cost impact, and say SMT's possibly only available at market value right now.



We used to look at similar figures 20-30 plus years ago. I never saw any benefit in using those figures and you would never have any new issues etc.

Does that mean Funds are also overvalued using a similar bases ie 5-8% discount on all units.
Big boy
Posted: 14 February 2025 10:15:38(UTC)
#17

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

Raj K;334267 wrote:
Big boy;334263 wrote:

Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.


So is SMT undervalued or overvalued based on today's stats and what are those stats?

Just for accuracy and based on Feb 11th's reported NAV on the PSH website (£61.84) and today's closing price of £44.60, it's is on a 28% discount. Does that change your view of the value on offer?



SMT on discount of 9% is fully valued and I would have sold as clearly better value elsewhere.

PSH on 28% is moving to-wards fully valued and and a clear HOLD. ..the later has to be treated as a controlled Trust whereas SMT is not a controlled Trust and therefore valued differently.. This is part of the DD ie understanding the structure and the underlying investments ..

I suspect if you look at say SMT when on a large premium the SP stood close to highs and therefore clearly overvalued whereas when on 25% discount they were cheap and a buy but at much lower SP.

When valuing SMT and PSH you clearly need to understand the complexities and much of this skill and knowledge takes time. I have noted however that you are moving to-wards this method ie the parts worth more than the whole....

I know from Manging money I and most investors dont have the ability to access a Company and make a judgement on the SP ie cheap or dear. I appreciate many Members try but I know I am not that clever plus I have no idea what is going on in the World in say 5/10 or 20 years.......

Remember most investors work out in same way what to buy and sell and therefor they all move in the same direction hence swing in over and undervaluations. This is very clear from swings in 12 month high/lows on Companies where the underlying business is much more stable.
Newbie
Posted: 14 February 2025 10:28:04(UTC)
#15

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,816

Thanks: 6009 times
Was thanked: 7025 time(s) in 2602 post(s)
Big boy;334263 wrote:

Newbie…great to see you joined me buying SMT on 25% discount (undervalued). Did you feel for those that bought near all time highs on a premium. This lead to SP underperforming the NAV. History just repeating itself.

I did not feel anything for those buying for what was you describe at the top end, given I do not know what reasons they were buying for, nor the length of time, nor the composition of their overall portfolio.

What I would say is that if someone was investing and put 100% of their portfolio in SMT or was intending to use all the funds in the next 10 years, then that would have been unwise.

I myself was still investing at £14 but just like now I was slowing the amount and pace of inputs. CGI (Canadian General Investments inputs) have also slowed and reduced and nothing to do with discounts but sentiment and geo-politics which also factor in my investment thesis

(I am also reviewing the India situation as the recent Trump-VAT is more an indirect hit at India and its GST - that is a market - with 1/5th of the world population and an emerging affluent consumer base, which the US and Musk are getting push back from not to mention the whole Ukraine Russia stance taken by the Indian government)

At the same time as above 3i has stopped getting funds and it is being put into the likes of PSH, BN, CLDN, SMIF, TFIF, HMWO.

I am not into trading (apart from the fun corner). For me it is more about capital allocation and parking wealth until I need it or to pass on.

What is interesting is that today SMT as at an all time high bar the period Aug 2020 - Aug 2021, and both you and me are buying, yet despite it being never being at or higher than this level.

Hence why I posed the "define cheap" question.
Raj K
Posted: 14 February 2025 21:05:45(UTC)
#20

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,818

The Brookfield 2024 Shareholder Letter is a good read.

https://bn.brookfield.co...r_to_Shareholders_F.pdf

Just a tidbit


There is a psychological phenomenon in most humans which results in caring a lot about what they own but caring less about something they rent. Consider the car you own and the care you take not to go too fast over speed bumps, for example. Conversely, rental cars are driven with much less care, and their depreciation is dramatically higher than owned cars. In housing this is even more pronounced; wear and tear on rental apartments is dramatically higher than those that are owned—in fact, buildings built at the same time in the same area with the same demographics find that rentals have 50% more wear and tear than owned.

It is our observation that people sometimes act like owners with their house, but act like renters with their investments. This is one of the great errors in investing. Those who own shares in a listed business have just a fractional ownership; an owner of an entire business sticks with the investment, and he/she believes that reinvestment into the business creates value and that over time the cashflows will grow. If that same business happens to be traded in the market and the stock goes up, this is acknowledgement that others see what a great business you have, but it really does not matter because as a stockholder you are just a fractional long-term owner. By comparison, if you own the apartment or house you live in, you likely would not sell it because someone told you it moved up or down in price. When you have fractional ownership of a business, you own a small piece of that business and so unless you lose faith in the business, there should be no reason to do anything—just act like an owner and watch the business grow.

Of course, decision making comes in because sometimes management teams go astray or business prospects decline. The above is based on the assumption that your management team is hard working and competent. This is important from the outset with an investment, as the future of a business is about not just what you own, but also the investment of the generated cash flow. It is extremely important that you maintain your house, and that management in a company makes good cash reinvestment decisions for you.

Many shareholders act like renters rather than owners, and “trade” simply because they think that the “stock price is up”. This is not relevant to the long-term value of your business, and after taxes, trading makes the frictional costs even more damaging to long-term returns. If, on the other hand, one acts like an owner in investing, then you will watch out to ensure that your management is working hard and doing the right things. However, in the absence of bad decisions being made, you should act like you own the business and just put the shares away in your account. Of course, that is hard with daily quotations everywhere—we realize also that the problem is only getting worse, not better, due to the growth of social media.

Owning a house and a business (through the fractional ownership of a listed entity) are two of the great tax-free ways to compound wealth over the long term. If one can compound owner returns constantly over long periods of time at greater than 10%, the wealth created by being an owner is astonishing. The alternative is renting a residence or renting businesses. Our view is that unless you are one of the very few extremely talented and knowledgeable stock traders, you will surely underperform as a renter as opposed to being an owner.
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