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Time up for the global tracker?
ben ski
Posted: 22 February 2025 16:58:18(UTC)
#34

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,354

Yeah, when you've got a published NAV that differs by 40-50% from a share price, you'd have to explain how they'd both be right.

I don't know if SF100 was trying to word that as a question, but there'd be a lot of chimpanzee references if he wasn't.

Thrugelmir
Posted: 22 February 2025 17:50:28(UTC)
#22

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,317

Harry Gloom;335437 wrote:
I think Vanguard may be on to something...




Unsurprisingly history has a strange habit of repeating it itself. The often quoted words. Will eternally stand the test of time.

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
Rory Barr
Posted: 22 February 2025 18:26:34(UTC)
#35

Joined: 18/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 737

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And Western nations in particular need to inflate away their debt so I wouldn’t be selling too many equities currently, and a global tracker is as good as anything at capturing that imho.
4 users thanked Rory Barr for this post.
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Peanuts
Posted: 22 February 2025 18:51:14(UTC)
#37

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,476

Out of interest does anyone know how much the current valuation of the S&P500 is above its mean average? Thanks
Thrugelmir
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:00:36(UTC)
#36

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,317

Rory Barr;335446 wrote:
And Western nations in particular need to inflate away their debt so I wouldn’t be selling too many equities currently, and a global tracker is as good as anything at capturing that imho.


The MSCI World Index is in essence a bell weather for events in the USA with around a 73% weighting. Next is Japan with 5% weighting. That only leaves some 22% for the remaining 21 developed countries in the index.
Harry Gloom
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:02:11(UTC)
#33

Joined: 01/12/2022(UTC)
Posts: 389

Thrugelmir;335444 wrote:
Harry Gloom;335437 wrote:
I think Vanguard may be on to something...




Unsurprisingly I have a strange habit of repeating myself. The often quoted words. Will eternally stand the test of time.

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'Thrugelmir keeps repeating himself.'" - Sir John Templeton


I hadn't noticed.
Big boy
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:09:39(UTC)
#19

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

Johan De Silva;335438 wrote:
SF100;335433 wrote:
ben ski;335429 wrote:
I think it's usually a mistake to believe your analysis is better than the market's – anyone can get lucky – unless you can clearly demonstrate irrational pricing.


ben ski;335429 wrote:
But what would seem to be more likely underpriced right now would be private equity and private equity infrastructure ITs, where prices are more dictated by older retail investors.

This is an example of irrational pricing that is easily found by published discounts....

But it's not the only example. The presence of this discounted trusts indicates that the UK market is irrational and full of opportunities for stock pickers who do the analysis. Published discounts makes this easy but other ways are possible.


Not sure there is anything else that forecasts “greed a fear” so well. Not sure anyone can beat the system so why bother.
Tom 123
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:16:09(UTC)
#38

Joined: 13/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,606

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Peanuts;335449 wrote:
Out of interest does anyone know how much the current valuation of the S&P500 is above its mean average? Thanks


I think a fair but generous figure would be say 17x to 20x. This implies a 5%-6% earnings yield. Add in the strong earnings growth of the US you get to around 8-9% average return.

Current PE, depends where you get it from, but around 26x to 30x. CAPE is higher, maybe 38x?

So one could argue 30% to 43% over the long term average. If a major crash occured, usually valuations bottom below 'fair value'.

Doesn't have to nominally crash. Could go sideways for a decade and inflation cause a real term crash. I think somewhere in the middle could occur. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 2021 high be breached. Think that about 30% below where we are now.
2 users thanked Tom 123 for this post.
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ben ski
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:36:53(UTC)
#39

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,354

The important thing is where equity earnings yields are in relation to bond yields. So when bond yields are low, stock PE ratios can justify being very high – because the basic equation markets are doing is: what can I get without taking risk, vs what can I get with risk?

The tech boom gave the public a very simple story: PE ratios too high. But equally important was that bond yields hit 6%. If they'd been 1%, stocks would've still been the only game in town.

I feel we wasted a lot of the 2010s talking about CAPE ratios – only for stocks to keep climbing. And that's why Shiller turned CAPE into ECV (Excess CAPE Yield). But this was academia and the media playing catchup to a very simple assessment markets are doing all the time. I think with the 10yr at 4.5%, stocks should be around PE 22.5. Some optimism on AI's immediate effects on margins and investment, and I don't think it's obvious markets are overpriced. I'd still be trying to buy what's out of favour, because future returns certainly could be on the lower side – every year stocks go up 22%, but economies don't grow that fast, is going to exert some kind of pull.

https://static.financialsense.com/historical/users/u3089/images/2016/0809/03.jpg

5 users thanked ben ski for this post.
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Peanuts
Posted: 22 February 2025 19:55:06(UTC)
#40

Joined: 16/02/2019(UTC)
Posts: 1,476

Someone I respect - Howard Marks said yes the stock market is probably a bit high, but not too overpriced all things considered. I’m sure he also said he wouldn’t sell it, but you never know if they are talking individual stocks or index’s. I’m also sure he knows better than I do 😂
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