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S_M
Posted: 13 July 2016 05:41:13(UTC)
#47

Joined: 17/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 787
Joe Soap;35219 wrote:
Annika Small;35051 wrote:
There is no such thing as easy money. Either way you have to invest time, effort and money. It takes hard work really.

I know someone who plays poker on line for a living. He started recently with almost nothing but now has a paid for house he is renovating to let, is a part owner in a bricks and mortar gambling club, part owner in a couple of gambling websites and has other bits and bobs on the go. All his gambling income is tax free and he chooses what to do each day as he sees fit since his gambling takes up the evening and night leaving his days free.

Not bad, but not for everyone.


I have three sources of income - work, matched betting and poker. With regards to poker it is not easy to beat the game and takes a lot of dedication and time studying strategy to make sure you are ahead of your competition at the tables. 85-90% of poker players lose money, the rest either survive on rake back payments from their poker site or actually show a profit.

The downside of playing poker as a sole occupation is you will never get a mortgage, but fair play to your friend he seems to have done well.

Since the Americans where banned from playing online, poker has become a much tougher game to beat and personally I like to play small ball, and be happy with making enough for a nice holiday every year rather than having to put ridiculous amounts of money on the tables. On sky poker they have a "top of the pots" hand every week where the size of the pot for one hand is quite often north of £2-£3k, pretty insane given that amount of money changes hands in less than a minute.
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Arleen Perez
Posted: 01 August 2016 05:30:14(UTC)
#53

Joined: 04/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Depends on what you call good income. If you're looking for jobs, try Upwork.
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1 user thanked Arleen Perez for this post.
Reorganising my Portfolio on 01/08/2016(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 01 August 2016 07:54:57(UTC)
#48

Joined: 05/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 11,046

Thanks: 6166 times
Was thanked: 30411 time(s) in 8333 post(s)
S_M;35252 wrote:
Joe Soap;35219 wrote:
Annika Small;35051 wrote:
There is no such thing as easy money. Either way you have to invest time, effort and money. It takes hard work really.

I know someone who plays poker on line for a living. He started recently with almost nothing but now has a paid for house he is renovating to let, is a part owner in a bricks and mortar gambling club, part owner in a couple of gambling websites and has other bits and bobs on the go. All his gambling income is tax free and he chooses what to do each day as he sees fit since his gambling takes up the evening and night leaving his days free.

Not bad, but not for everyone.


I have three sources of income - work, matched betting and poker. With regards to poker it is not easy to beat the game and takes a lot of dedication and time studying strategy to make sure you are ahead of your competition at the tables. 85-90% of poker players lose money, the rest either survive on rake back payments from their poker site or actually show a profit.

The downside of playing poker as a sole occupation is you will never get a mortgage, but fair play to your friend he seems to have done well.

Since the Americans where banned from playing online, poker has become a much tougher game to beat and personally I like to play small ball, and be happy with making enough for a nice holiday every year rather than having to put ridiculous amounts of money on the tables. On sky poker they have a "top of the pots" hand every week where the size of the pot for one hand is quite often north of £2-£3k, pretty insane given that amount of money changes hands in less than a minute.



Reminded me of this Michael Platt (BlueCrest) quote

“I look for the type of guy in London who gets up at seven o’clock on Sunday morning when his kids are still in bed, and logs onto a poker site so that he can pick off the U.S. drunks coming home on Saturday night. I hired a guy like that. He usually clears 5 or 10 grand every Sunday morning before breakfast taking out the drunks playing poker because they're not very good at it, but their confidence has gone up a lot. That’s the type of guy you want – someone who understands edge. Analysts, on the other hand, don’t think about anything else other than how smart they are.”

I miss the AllBlue hedge fund ... Did what all the GARS funds could only crudely simulate with hefty amounts of beta
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2 users thanked King Lodos for this post.
S_M on 01/08/2016(UTC), Reorganising my Portfolio on 01/08/2016(UTC)
S_M
Posted: 01 August 2016 12:36:54(UTC)
#49

Joined: 17/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 787
King Lodos;35815 wrote:
S_M;35252 wrote:
Joe Soap;35219 wrote:
Annika Small;35051 wrote:
There is no such thing as easy money. Either way you have to invest time, effort and money. It takes hard work really.

I know someone who plays poker on line for a living. He started recently with almost nothing but now has a paid for house he is renovating to let, is a part owner in a bricks and mortar gambling club, part owner in a couple of gambling websites and has other bits and bobs on the go. All his gambling income is tax free and he chooses what to do each day as he sees fit since his gambling takes up the evening and night leaving his days free.

Not bad, but not for everyone.


I have three sources of income - work, matched betting and poker. With regards to poker it is not easy to beat the game and takes a lot of dedication and time studying strategy to make sure you are ahead of your competition at the tables. 85-90% of poker players lose money, the rest either survive on rake back payments from their poker site or actually show a profit.

The downside of playing poker as a sole occupation is you will never get a mortgage, but fair play to your friend he seems to have done well.

Since the Americans where banned from playing online, poker has become a much tougher game to beat and personally I like to play small ball, and be happy with making enough for a nice holiday every year rather than having to put ridiculous amounts of money on the tables. On sky poker they have a "top of the pots" hand every week where the size of the pot for one hand is quite often north of £2-£3k, pretty insane given that amount of money changes hands in less than a minute.



Reminded me of this Michael Platt (BlueCrest) quote

“I look for the type of guy in London who gets up at seven o’clock on Sunday morning when his kids are still in bed, and logs onto a poker site so that he can pick off the U.S. drunks coming home on Saturday night. I hired a guy like that. He usually clears 5 or 10 grand every Sunday morning before breakfast taking out the drunks playing poker because they're not very good at it, but their confidence has gone up a lot. That’s the type of guy you want – someone who understands edge. Analysts, on the other hand, don’t think about anything else other than how smart they are.”

I miss the AllBlue hedge fund ... Did what all the GARS funds could only crudely simulate with hefty amounts of beta


Quite an apt analogy. Poker is very similar to trading/investing and requires an understanding of human psychology, risk management, financial discipline and maths.
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King Lodos on 01/08/2016(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 01 August 2016 18:35:29(UTC)
#50

Joined: 05/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 11,046

Thanks: 6166 times
Was thanked: 30411 time(s) in 8333 post(s)
S_M;35821 wrote:
King Lodos;35815 wrote:
S_M;35252 wrote:
Joe Soap;35219 wrote:
Annika Small;35051 wrote:
There is no such thing as easy money. Either way you have to invest time, effort and money. It takes hard work really.

I know someone who plays poker on line for a living. He started recently with almost nothing but now has a paid for house he is renovating to let, is a part owner in a bricks and mortar gambling club, part owner in a couple of gambling websites and has other bits and bobs on the go. All his gambling income is tax free and he chooses what to do each day as he sees fit since his gambling takes up the evening and night leaving his days free.

Not bad, but not for everyone.


I have three sources of income - work, matched betting and poker. With regards to poker it is not easy to beat the game and takes a lot of dedication and time studying strategy to make sure you are ahead of your competition at the tables. 85-90% of poker players lose money, the rest either survive on rake back payments from their poker site or actually show a profit.

The downside of playing poker as a sole occupation is you will never get a mortgage, but fair play to your friend he seems to have done well.

Since the Americans where banned from playing online, poker has become a much tougher game to beat and personally I like to play small ball, and be happy with making enough for a nice holiday every year rather than having to put ridiculous amounts of money on the tables. On sky poker they have a "top of the pots" hand every week where the size of the pot for one hand is quite often north of £2-£3k, pretty insane given that amount of money changes hands in less than a minute.



Reminded me of this Michael Platt (BlueCrest) quote

“I look for the type of guy in London who gets up at seven o’clock on Sunday morning when his kids are still in bed, and logs onto a poker site so that he can pick off the U.S. drunks coming home on Saturday night. I hired a guy like that. He usually clears 5 or 10 grand every Sunday morning before breakfast taking out the drunks playing poker because they're not very good at it, but their confidence has gone up a lot. That’s the type of guy you want – someone who understands edge. Analysts, on the other hand, don’t think about anything else other than how smart they are.”

I miss the AllBlue hedge fund ... Did what all the GARS funds could only crudely simulate with hefty amounts of beta


Quite an apt analogy. Poker is very similar to trading/investing and requires an understanding of human psychology, risk management, financial discipline and maths.


I've really come to appreciate that – the Brevan Howard hedge fund recently hired a top European poker player (I believe)

I only play against poker AIs to keep myself sharp, but I find going for lots of little wins (I guess playing the odds but keeping risk low) is a lot like trading with tight stops

Where the AI gets me is these 1 in 200 hands where I'm confident and want to maximise profits (I did a similar thing with gold miners this year – doubling up – successfully), and I'm convinced the opponent is bluffing ... and it takes me to the cleaners ... I haven't worked out how to plug that hole yet ... Must be the AI's waiting for a 1 in 200 hand, knowing I've (at best) got a 1 in 100
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1 user thanked King Lodos for this post.
Reorganising my Portfolio on 01/08/2016(UTC)
Reorganising my Portfolio
Posted: 01 August 2016 19:17:14(UTC)
#54

Joined: 05/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 38
I wonder with these online Poker sites whether
you are actually playing online players who are real?
Or are you playing a computer ?
They draw you in and then they blow you out in Bubbles.?
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S_M
Posted: 01 August 2016 20:32:47(UTC)
#55

Joined: 17/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 787
If you are referring to "poker bots" then yes they exist. The big poker sites have invested vast sums of money to identify these bots, but you always have some that slip through the net.

On Sky Poker, my preferred site the players identified two bots by their very mechanical set way of joining and playing games. Initially Sky dismissed this, but after some significant player pressure they investigated and we never saw the said players again.

In playing the game for 6 years, this is the only instance of coming across poker bots. With regards to the rest of the players there is a significant community feeling to Sky Poker and they regularly have events in Nottingham where regulars can qualify online.

I have also made friends from the site and met several players, who unless they are a form of AI which I could not detect look human enough to me!

That aside, if you have the ability to study the game a basic grasp of maths (probability) and a solid temperament there is money to be made. It is no coincidence that one of the best female poker players in the world has a degree in astrophysics. People who have an above average IQ generally do well at the game.

http://www.livboeree.com/about-liv/
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Reorganising my Portfolio
Posted: 01 August 2016 21:17:01(UTC)
#57

Joined: 05/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 38
S_M
Bookmakers who are willing to give you free bets to encourage you to bet on these Poker sites
are hardly doing just that for your benefit?
The old saying is you never see a poor bookmaker.
I am deeply suspicious that play on these sites is all that is supposed to be.
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Alan Selwood
Posted: 01 August 2016 22:03:00(UTC)
#58

Joined: 17/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,379

Thanks: 735 times
Was thanked: 7200 time(s) in 2183 post(s)
Rather than betting, I recommend that you spend a couple of hours watching the now fairly old film of James Garner as 'Maverick' on a Mississippi river-boat in a poker competition. Much more entertaining (IMHO) and very much cheaper as an activity unless you are the bank/bookmaker.

As my Dad used to say:
Those that bet and know are crooks.
Those that bet and don't are fools!
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1 user thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
Reorganising my Portfolio on 02/08/2016(UTC)
S_M
Posted: 02 August 2016 05:46:21(UTC)
#59

Joined: 17/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 787
Oh dear the above two posts show the lack of understanding of both how Poker works, and why bookmakers whilst they have a house edge can be exploited through Matched Betting techniques.

Firstly, poker is not a game against the house/bookmaker. It is the only game both online and offline, that relies on skill versus other players. The house charges a "rake" for hosting the game but it is insignificant in relation to the size of each pot. If you are more knowledgeable and display the traits I described above more than your opponents you will prevail in the long run.

So what brings losing players back to the table? Well as I have already have said poker is a game of probability, you can get yourself into a situation where you are an 80% favourite to win a hand, but 20% of the time you will lose. Play this scenario out hundreds and even thousands of times and I hope the doubters will see that you will prevail in the long run. Another thing that brings losing poker players back is ego, if they win a hand through playing badly and don't realise it they will come back again and make the same mistakes.

Matched Betting turns house/bookmaker edge on it's head and mainly applies to sports betting. Every bookmaker prices their odds in a way that gives them a few percentage point margin.The margin is the bookmakers perceived value of the the likely chance of an outcome, for instance a horse to win a race or a football team to win a match. Bookmakers get this right more often than they get it wrong, hence 90% plus of punters will lose at the bookies.

Matched betting involves covering all outcomes by backing with the bookie and laying (which means covering the other option(s)) on an exchange such as Betfair. So you might back Arsenal to win with Ladbrokes, but on Betfair you lay the bet which means you are covering the possibility of a draw or an away win. The bookies offer free bets as an enticement to signup to their site and keep betting after the signup. So for the Arsenal example you may be offered a £20 free bet if it is a signup. Once the match finishes we are given a free bet, which we can use to bet on pretty much anything, again we cover all outcomes and because we are not paying for the free bet, this allows us to exploit the bookmaker and clear a profit.

Bookies don't like matched bettors because they are unprofitable over the longer term, and they will restrict accounts by denying promotions, if they suspect a customer is using this technique. Regardless of this it is possible to make thousands before the bookmakers start to cotton on, even then there are many things you can do to throw the bookmaker off your scent.

I made several hundred pounds during Euro 2016, when the bookmakers ramped up their offers for each game.

If after this explanation you remain sceptical that is fine by me, it's better that things like Matched Betting don't go mainstream otherwise that will ruin it for us that do understand how things really are. It is possible to make in excess of £10k a year matched betting without spending a lot of time on something for me that is a hobby, what's there not to like about that!
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3 users thanked S_M for this post.
Reorganising my Portfolio on 02/08/2016(UTC), Greylocks on 31/12/2017(UTC), DJLW on 18/06/2019(UTC)
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